Reader Question: How Do I Find a Quality Raiding Guild?

Reader Question: How Do I Find a Quality Raiding Guild?

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Recently, reader Solarius wrote in with a question that I found so insightful and thought-provoking that I felt it deserved a whole post in response. In his own words:

I was wondering if you had any advice for players who are looking for a decent raiding guild – I’ve read your post on “How do I break into raiding?”, but there are also considerations, like how to recognize a good guild or know when its recruiting and so on. I remember back during BC when Karazhan just had i’s entrance requirements relaxed, and I had the hardest time finding even a Karazhan guild that didn’t either try to run with greens, or have an established cliquish environment.

While I admit I didn’t improve my equipment to the upmost (enchantments and non-green gems being the cardinal sins), I tried my best to be a better raider: I ran PuG Heroics for equipment upgrades, made and offered potions and elixirs, learned how to maximize my DPS rotations, and read up on instance encounters. I still never really made it past PuGing Karazhan.

Since you were writing about guild management and recruitment, I hoped you could cover the other end of the spectrum. As you’ve mentioned before, not everyone advertises on Trade (and I’ve regretted the three times I took those blind offers), the Realm forums can be sketchy, and sites like WoWJutsu are impersonal and lack contact information.

Solarius is absolutely right in that the question of finding a guild has two sides. Yes, players need to do everything that they can to “sell” themselves to the organization they would like to join. There is plenty of information available in the blogosphere, both on this site and elsewhere, about how to apply to a guild. However, how does a player find a guild worth applying to?

I’ve recently changed guilds myself, and you might say that I had an insider’s tip as to where to go, as I’m now raiding with Matticus (who, as I’ve said, is every bit as great a GM as he is a boss). However, I am confident that, if I had to find a guild with no personal connection whatsoever to me, I think I could sort the good from the bad. What would be my plan of attack, and even more importantly, what decisions would I have to make?

If you’re looking for a new guild, consider following these ten steps to virtual health, happiness, and phat loots.

1. Decide whether you want to stay on your current server.

Personal circumstances will probably decide this one for you. If there will be a lot of drama involved when you leave your current guild, a server jump can be a good way to get a fresh start. However, if you have friends and relatives on your server, and they’re not willing to move with you, you may want to stay. In many cases, this decision will be impacted by the overall health of raiding guilds on your server. If there are many active guilds that you wouldn’t mind joining, it could be a good idea to stick around the neighborhood. If your server’s too quiet, or if your faction is outnumbered or always loses battlegrounds, you may be happier with a change of scene.

2. Place advertisements.

What you’re doing is fishing for responses from guilds who are actively looking. If you’re staying on your own realm, make a post about yourself on your realm forum. Be aware that these posts can draw the trolls, but they will get your name out there. However, for a fairly troll-free place to fish, go to the Alliance or Horde Guild Recruitment Forums and place a thoughtful ad about yourself. Quality guilds will search these almost daily when they’re looking for new blood. I found Trinia, an awesome warlock and one of my favorite people in Conquest, that way. Watch to see who responds to your ad, and then research their organization before you take the next step.

3. Observe how your prospective guild behaves.

If you’re staying on your own server, do watch that Trade Chat. Sometimes really good organizations will advertise that way. Write their names down, and whisper the recruiter for more information. If you’re thinking of a guild on another server, make an alt and stand in a major city for a while. Are they an active presence on the server? If so, do they contribute in a positive or negative way? This is far easier to do on your own server, where you are in effect listening all the time to how other guilds behave. If the guild recruits in trade, ask to talk to someone. That will be your best measure of what the guild is really like. I must admit, I judge guilds by their members, particularly their public interactions with others. Just one person spamming trade with obscenities will color my opinion of the whole group.

4. When a guild interviews you, interview them right back.

If you’re invited to chat or get on vent with a guild recruiter, ask questions. It’s not just about “auditioning” for this new person and proving how great you are. This is your chance to quiz them on the issues that are important to you. How do they distribute loot? How do longtime members treat new people? Is there any longstanding guild drama? What do they do when problems arise? These are tough questions, and you’ll be listening carefully to your recruiter’s responses. If she’s being evasive, take it as a warning sign. This interview is your opportunity to find out whatever you want to know–use it wisely.

5. E-stalk your new guild.

Before you accept a g-invite, take advantage of any and all public information about them. Go to their website, and, if you can, make an account there. Read the whole thing if they will let you. If they are well-organized, the site will have at least some content. Raiding guilds tend to have fairly active websites. Watch for too much activity however. All guilds have drama, but beware all-out insult fests.

It probably already occurred to you to check a guild’s progress on Wowjutsu. However, I want you to go with a critical eye. Go through all the listings and find out what their gear distribution is like. How many players are getting geared up? Is there a lot of competition for your class and role? Do the officers seem to be getting everything? Wowjutsu doesn’t track everything, but you can pretty much count on guilds queueing up their loot from first boss kills. If the loot distribution is fair, you will see a lot of different names. In addition, Wowjutsu lets you see the grayed out names of players who have recently left the organization. A high proportion of these can indicate that your prospective guild has lost many members and is trying to rebuild.

In addition to the guild’s own website and Wowjutsu, I urge you to go to the guild’s realm forum and see how other guilds respond to them there. They probably have a recruitment thread up, and there are probably responses from players with other guild tags. If they have a good rep on the server, most of this commentary will be positive. If your prospective guild is comprised of a bunch of ninja asshats, the server forums might just clue you in.

6. Go on a trial run if you can.

A really good organization will let you try out–and even take loot. They will be proud of what they have to offer. Particularly if you’re on the same server, pug a 10-man with some of their members. If you like the personalities of the people you run with, talk to them more in-depth about the guild. Most people will be honest with you, and you’ll get to see their perspective on the good and bad features of the guild.

Remember, accepting a g-invite is not a lifetime commitment. If you’re unhappy, you owe it to yourself to seek your bliss elsewhere. Even if you server hop, you can change guilds again in a month. I am all for loyalty to an organization, but be sure it is a guild that deserves your allegiance. Be fair to your guild, and don’t expect perfection, but don’t be a martyr either. Happy hunting!

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Comments

  1. I agree with most of what you say except,
    “If you’re staying on your own realm, make a post about yourself on your realm forum.”

    This immediately associates you (the person looking for a guild) with being grossly naive and uninformed of who “the guilds” are. It’s the biggest rookie mistake in the book and I’ve never seen it result in any kind of recruitment unless the person had absolutely unbelievable gear. (which you won’t since you’re not in a raiding guild)

    The “realm post” only works for server transfers and only b/c of gear. I can’t agree with this tactic at all. As to the, quality guilds will search these… No, they won’t.

    Quality guilds don’t search at all. People come to them. The last time that my guild “searched” for anyone was the start of TBC when we weren’t a progressive guild in the raiding scene.

    The best way to find a quality raiding guild is to look at the Guild progress threads on your realm forums and understand that new guilds basically never, ever make it unless they’re just re-brandings of old established guilds. So, if you want to find a quality guild… look at where they made it in TBC and start there.

    Overall, this post has a lot of great info, but I can’t help but feel like you’re doing a lot of theorizing and not drawing on personal experience as much as it just doesn’t seem like you’ve been on the recruitment end of a progressive guild.

    Veneretios last blog post..How good is Defense?

    • @Veneretio: I can assure you she’s not doing any sort of theorycrafting type thing when it comes to recruiting. She’s done a tremendous job using her personal experience and without her help, Conquest would not be where it is right now. She may not have been on the recruitment end of a progressive guild then, but she certainly is now.

  2. I agree with Veneretios. Your post does have a lot of great info and insight in it, but the reality of high end guild participation is the same as corporate job hunting. You have to first be the best you can be in DPS, gear and abilities of your class, and then you have to have a lot of raid experience. What a person finds themselves doing is pugging around until you find a good player or group of players and try to get in their guild. Work on your DPS or healing stats, along with gearing up, until you’re close to being competitive. You work your way up the ladder until you have what it takes to audition for the high end raiders.

  3. If you’ve found a guild that you’ve decided to “e-stalk” it could also be an idea to check out how many are online and what they’re doing, by a simple “Who”, Guild name. Maybe raiding isn’t your only focus in the game – you want to have a guild that is alive and does things in-between raids, such as herocis etc. Check out that the guild is really doing what they claim they’re doing.

    Larísas last blog post..Fashion for clothies doesn’t make sense

  4. I strongly disagree with the first two posters. It’s simply incorrect. A healthy guild is a present guild. All guild officer’s worth their salt know that good recruits require cultivation. Bringing in a known well geared person on the server has a great risk of bringing in a personality that is expecting a level of treatment that they have not earned in a new guild.

    Your role in a new/recruiting guild is to contribute. At this point in the expansion very few people are geared and looking for a guild.

    If they are 25 man fully geared, they’ve either been lucky in pugs or their guild jumping.

    Gear is cheap, good guild members and players are priceless.

    An articulate post is the same thing as a good resume. If you’re job hunting with no resume, you’re fishing with no fishing pole. Good guilds know this.

  5. I agree DogofWar that a good, articulate post is important in order to get into a quality raiding guild, but that post shouldn’t be on realm forums and instead should be in the application section of the guild you’ve already pre-researched as “the one” you want.

    I should also note that you should never apply to a guild that grossly outgears yourself and you should never, ever apply to 2 guilds at once. Furthermore, be very selectively with the guild you choose as raiding guilds are often very competitive with one and other. So, if you get denied from 1 guild, you’ve greatly decreased your chances of getting into the next raiding guild.

    The raiding scene is very, very inbred so I’d encourage you if anything to apply first and foremost to the guild that you’ve got the best chance of getting into that’s considered part of “the scene” even if personality-wise they aren’t your cup of tea. The point is you’ve gotta get into the inner circle first, then you can leverage that street cred to basically get anywhere.

    Veneretios last blog post..How good is Defense?

  6. I totally understand what you’re saying Dog of War. But I think we are talking about two different types of players. There is the megagod who is uber geared and hops from one guild to the other for various power reasons. And then there’s the other player who is looking for a slot to become a high end raider. And you are also right in that a good guild officer will judge a person by their interest and dedication to improvement and help them achieve that goal. The harsh reality is that many big raid guilds look at gear mostly because they don’t want to take the time out of their raiding schedule to get that person up to speed. I have found the best luck with medium raiding guilds that enjoy the content of heroics, quests and raiding. They may not have run the Black Temple, but are working in that direction.

  7. To be clear: Naxx 25 experience, clears, and gear say nothing about a player. Therefore gear can tell a guild officer nothing about recruiting. A guild that would reject a person because they do not have gear from 25 (or to be more realistic 10 man) naxx is not thoughtfully recruiting.

    There are two kinds of guilds in the grand scheme of things. The progression mill, the guild that progresses at all costs, including high member turnover and loot loss. This type of guild always ends up with a small core of extremely geared people, some of whom are jaded at the loot rot caused by the player overturn. Then, there is the establishment guild. This is a guild that has a raiding schedule and raid times that are similar to an intramural sports team or a gym workout group or a study group or any sort of social group. It’s interested in whatever pursuit the have taken up and want to do well, but it is most focused upon enjoyment.

    Mallet or Syd may word it differently, but their guild is an establishment guild. They are interested in raiding content and recruiting people who will become, at the very least, something close to friends. Coincidentally Mallet’s guild is now farming all the content up to OS w/ drakes up? Less than a month into the game?

    This week, less than a month after release, Conquest raided three days out of 7, for a total of 9 hours in a week. That time commitment is less than a part-time job.

    Joining the “inner circle” will get you geared and raiding, but it won’t get you into a good guild. I know Mallet and Kimboslice have players on their blackball list because of their involvement in the “inner circle”. The inner circle is a thin eminence front that hides unstable guilds, engorged egos and massive drama.

    There is a difference between the server community and the “inner circle”, which is here to be understood as the server forum trolls who flame recruitment posts. Posting an articulate post on the realm forums is participating in the server community. Posting on the guild’s website is an application, and a step beyond and more intimate than advertising that you are looking for a guild.

    A guild recruitment officer will let you know whether or not they are accepting ‘ungeared’ applicants. But to reiterate, at this stage of the game there is no such thing as an ungeared applicant, because there is no such thing as a geared player unless you are talking about above 1000 world guilds. And even if we were, they’re still running the 25 mans, and 25 mans are easily enterable in 80 heroics gear.

    The world doesn’t revolve around the “inner circle”, much to their dismay. An establishment guild will outlast and out perform a progression mill guild every single time in the long run. That’s why there is, relatively, very little turnover in the long-standing top world guilds.

    When joining a guild, the identifiers can be summed up, in my opinion, as:
    a) a communicative guild recruitment process
    b) server recognition as a reputable guild with integrity
    c) a website and inner guild dynamic that is healthy, and not dysfunctional

    It is perfectly reasonable to join a progression mill guild with the goal of getting gear as long as your purpose is transparent; Make it clear you are joining to gain experience and improve your gear and that your staying with the guild is contingent upon what you are getting from it.

    In the long run, the guild that most people are or should be looking for is the establishment, the one that has a long-standing, successful and friendly community. Period.

  8. As some one who was forced to change guild a few times over the past few months I feel like i have some decent experiance with this subject.

    1. If your not willing to change servers then the process is simple but don’t expect great results. Realisticly a realm can have only so many good raiding guilds, so it will be tough to find one that matches your schedule, your level of progression, and has a need for your abilities. Both times I server transfered I looked at my current server, but both times there just wasn’t that many options.

    2. Personal Advertisements are great on the guild recruitment forums, but pretty bad on the realm forums in my experiance. When I was doing guild recruitment a post on the guild recruitment froms said to me that the poster was serious because they are looking to change servers, and you can’t expect anyone to research guilds on all of the servers. On the other hand a post on the realm forums said to me that the poster isn’t willing to research the guilds on the server, so how much effort are they going to put into their toon or the guild.

    When I did guild recruitment I found several good people from the guild recruitment forums, I didn’t have any luck with people that posted in realm forums.

    3. Take a good look at the guilds recruitment posts. Good guilds will give you all the information you need. You’ll know when they raid, how they do loot, and how serious they are. A guild with a high level of commentment to progression will have put some work into there recruitment post. It won’t be: “So and So is recruiting healers. We raid from x – y, mon – thurs. App at WeSuck.com”

    A good guild will tell you why you should be interested in them.

    4. Find the guild that suits your needs first, then app weather they are recruiting yoru class or not. I apped to my current guild twice, I was not on the server either time. I apped to them because their raid time were perfect for me and it was clear by there recruitment post that they were a guild of grown ups that would understand the family issues I might have on short notice. Neither time I apped did they say they were spacifically recruiting a moonkin.

    Graylos last blog post..My Christmas Wish List

  9. A point that I didn’t make that I meant to is: Right now, even the top end guilds are still gearing players. Unless you’re looking to MT, gear isn’t an issue.

  10. I get the feeling I’m arguing semantics with a lot of folks at this point. To be clear and no offense intended, but when I read quality raiding guild, I’m talking about a guild that’s been around for at least 6+ months (which is probably low and over a year is probably more true) and has established itself as being able to consistently clear challenging raid content and not kill each other in the process.

    Like it or not, the “inner circle” is not all jerks. There’s plenty of that inner circle that’s great people that don’t push their agendas all over the forums to get the spotlight. It’s those inner circle people that you want to be because at that point you can freely flow between the top guilds on your server and get a raiding spot in the one that matches your schedule and personality best.

    I simply don’t count any guild that just started with WotLK as a quality raiding guild even if they’ve cleared the whole game already. There was plenty of guilds back at 70 that cleared Karazhan before the top guilds my server. Yet, when it all came down to it… the top 15 guilds on our server were made up almost entirely of guilds that had been around for over 2 years.

    So, I guess it all depends on how you define, “quality”. I define quality as becoming part of a guild that’s already proven that it’s going to be around for the entire expansion and at the end, you’ll be able to say that you’ve been with the same guild through the majority of the content that Blizzard offered.

    Veneretios last blog post..How good is Defense?

  11. -Chat with people of the guild, especially same class and specc. After all that’s whom you’re going to compete with for raidspots. Most normal raiders will be honest and tell you how guild life is and you might get a feeling if you’ll fit in or not. Even if raiders probably won’t talk to guild drama and stuff to strangers. But even then you might get an idea of how needed your class is and if you’re gear is ok.

    -Socialize. We have a lot of guild invites that are friends of someone or old guild bonds or something like that. That’s just the way it goes.

    If everything fails: reroll shaman.

    drugs last blog post..WoW + Epic Mouse = Win

  12. @Veneratio:

    I agree with you on most things, but obviously not on this point.

    “Quality” has a lot more to do with how an organization runs itself than the length of time it’s been running. I probably should have added as a tip–“don’t be afraid of a new guild.” When I’m looking to move, I’m actively looking for a brand-new organization, because to me, the worst thing about good raiding guilds is the possibility that longtime members will resent new ones. I don’t want to walk into drama that I didn’t cause.

    The kind of guild that Vene describes is probably great for longtime members or well-recognized personalities. They’re not great for a server transfer, at least not unless the guild actively works to help its new people out. When I was considering an established Classic/BC at the outset of Wrath, I asked how raiders felt when new members got loot. The answer was “they kind of resent it.” I think this stance is unfortunately rather typical in the longtime guild. I’ve also heard about overly punishing guild applications from recruits–one even requiring applicants to cite the mathematical formula they use to calculate their dps. Those guilds might clear some content, but to me, they’re not really making a good offer to a new person.

    I have now recruited for two raiding guilds. The first, Collateral Damage, cleared Hyjal and BT before 3.0, and might have gone farther had we not run out of time. I think I personally brought them 8 total strangers as new raiders, solely based on ads. Conquest, my current guild, has now cleared Malygos 25, and has gone from 8 raiders to about 30 in a few weeks, thanks in part to my service as off-server recruiter. I personally read posts on realm forums and the Guild Recruitment forum, and I reply to all the good ones. If there’s a really good one, I track people down on their servers with an alt. There’s a lot of level one Syderas out there. When I’m actively looking for members, I am always impressed by people who are proactive about looking for options. I try to talk to all of these people on vent if I can–I think I may have had 10-ish recruitment talks for Conquest, and all were successful.

    I’ve also had to handle potential recruits when my raiding guild isn’t looking. I’m not actually thrilled when I get an application that I have to say no to–over vent–because the guild isn’t looking. That was often the case with my previous guild, because they always limited recruiting to the bare minimum, and it was really frustrating both for me and for the applicants.

    I also have a good bit of experience applying for jobs. I can assure you that I get the word out there about myself, but I don’t just look up the best position in the area and bother people who work at that institution. I look for open positions. That’s what I would do if I were looking for a new raiding guild right now. And yeah, I would probably post on my realm forum–if nothing else, it lets you see who the trolls are and closes off some options. I think more, rather than less, effort is a good thing.

  13. @Vene, I can’t help but feeling that your discussion of the “inner circle” to raiding guilds sounds elitist and pessimistic. Beyond making yourself the best possible candidate you can be, the most important thing to finding a job, a date, a bowling league, a book club, an antiquarian society, a raiding guild, or whatever activity floats your boat is to let people know that you’re looking. It’s hard to know who might read a realm post, a tell, or a personal message and pass that information along to someone in a position to recruit. Word of mouth is a powerful thing and while not every LF raiding guild post may be authored by a quality candidate, it is possible to match quality people to quality guilds on both sides of the equation.

    I would also agree with Dog that the progression at all cost guilds tend to be the most unstable in the long term. They certainly were on my old server, and they are all dead at this point or dismembered like some sick Frankenstein experiment. None of them ever gave me any desire to join. When picking a guild, take a look at the experience of individual players, but also the way they present themselves on the web and on the WoW forums. Newer raiding guilds and long-time raiding guilds each present distinct difficulties and advantages for the recruit, but the more you know going in, the better you can negotiate your own path.

  14. I want to thank Sydera for answering my question with such a great article. It gives some great directions on what exactly to do to find a good guild. It also, well, tells me to spy on prospective guildmates, and maybe that’s what I’ll have to do eventually. The comments I’m reading are also quite interesting, and bring different perspectives into the equation, at least, into what a raiding guild is, and which ones I may or may not enjoy being a part of. I understand the editing: editorial privilege, and it was irrelevant to the post.

    But for future reference, the name is Solarious.

    Not Solarius.

    Don’t worry. I’m used to it. ;-p

  15. A fine article. I wish more people would follow this advise and apply in this manner. Thorough applications will not always result in a successfull acquisition, but they promote a good understanding between the guild and the applicant.

    So far I find that many applications lack point 4 and 5. I think it can be merged into a single point “Getting to know eachother”.
    Some applicants write a very nice, detailed resumé in line with the guild’s request and then whisper us for an invite the very same day. While he may have given us an impression of what he’s like… we don’t always feel assured the person will fit in the group as he didn’t ask us any questions or elaborated on what he expected from us.
    But it’s not always the applicant at fault. Sometimes writing a big text that “proves you put effort in the application” is enough to convince guilds to accept the person without further questions.
    I consider active communication and discussion essential.

  16. @Briolante

    Yes, getting your name out there will get you a job and yes, the “inner circle” does sound elitist because it IS elitist. If you want to be in a quality* raiding guild, the reality is… it’s elitist. We read sites like this one to become the best we can. To stand out. To be the elite. This isn’t to say we have to lord it over people that aren’t part of the “elite” or “inner circle”. “Elite” does not me jerk. You can be a good person and be a part of the “Elite”.

    When I talk about the “inner circle”, I’m not talking about getting a job, I’m talking about getting THE job. I’m not talking about settling on a raid guild that’s close enough to what you want, I’m talking about being able to get exactly what you want. That’s what being part of the “inner circle” gets you and the reality is… that’s what jobs in life are about too. Every profession you enter has a number of entry level jobs and yes, you gotta do your time, but once you’ve got years of experience you become part of the “inner circle” of the job world too. You no longer have to make yourself available, you are pursued.

    *I’m defining quality here as bleeding edge, server first guilds. Sydera in her follow-up comment makes an excellent point in that quality does not necessarily constitute getting server firsts, but instead getting into a guild where everyone’s a big happy family.

    **Yes, this comment did break my double quotation marks from over-use.

    Veneretios last blog post..How good is Defense?

  17. First, thanks Syd for the article. Having read all the comments, I feel the issue here is what one means by ‘raiding guild’. I feel we need to distinguish between a raiding guild and a top raiding guild. So here are my definitions:

    Raiding Guild: a guild that has or is putting together a group or people that desire to tackle the raiding content. Often is young and motivated or well established but desiring a slower pace. Guilds here often vary greatly, from exceptionally skilled groups that are not interested in selling their soul to the raiding game to brand new players who have never run a heroic. Often the raiding group is a mix of the above groups.

    Top Raiding Guild: a guild that consistently is in the top few guilds in their faction on their server. Tend to have several server top 5 kills, and a long reputation for excellence. Willing to put real life on hold to do things first. Been around long enough to have proven their stability and dedication. (Note: I use the word ‘top’ not in the sense of better or superior, only in the sense of 1st kills. The group that gets server 1sts is usually perceived as the ‘top’ guild, regardless of guild quality. Please do not think that I mean ‘top’ in a judgmental or elitist fashion.)

    I think what we have in the comments are responses to two different questions: How do I find a Raiding Guild? and How do I find a Top Raiding Guild?

    I think the original question was asking about a raiding guild. Raiding guilds recruit actively, read realm posts, and respect a good personal add. Only the Top Raiding Guilds can afford to let people come to them, and even then it is with the understanding that most people who do will be turned away or quickly pruned. Top Raiding Guilds required T5+ for recruits desiring BT slots. Raiding guilds are more open because they have to be, and often are the better for it.

    So my answer to Solarious would be similar to Syd’s. If Solarious had asked how to get into a server 1st guild, the answer would be very different. And I am sure Syd’s post would have reflected that question.

  18. I think the key difference here is what is meant by “quality.”

    I made an assumption about what Solarious wanted based on his description of himself as a player. It didn’t sound like a server-first guild would be something he’d even like!

    So I described how to find a more ordinary raiding guild–one that progresses successfully, if more slowly, than the server-first guilds, and one in which members have good relationships with each other. I’ve been in a couple guilds now of this type, and there are a lot of them out there and they do quite well in the game, even if they see things weeks or months behind the bleeding edge folks. I’m heavily biased–I only want to be in guilds where people are kind to me. Now, I also want to kill everything, so that makes me picky about where I can go. However, server 10th-20th is totally fine by me.

    I think also, Vene, that you and I are influenced by our prospective industries. For professorships, there are all kinds of rules about how to apply and when. You can’t apply for a job without a specific job listing in one of the accepted publications, and you’re not allowed to call or email the people who posted the ads. All you are allowed to do is send them your application, just like for undergrad. Candidates also interview at a national conference, not the place they hope to work. To me, it’s somewhat similar to placing ads on Looking for Guild for a spot in an off-server guild. All this goes to say that you and I are coming from totally different backgrounds if we apply our work experience to WoW. I will say that I model my vent interviews after the better job interviews I’ve had.

  19. First of all <3 Syd

    I would like to add some things that might help a prospective guild applier.

    Let me give you my background first.

    I started playing the game about 6 months after the release of classic. The first guild I ever joined was a guild of about 10 real life friends on Malygos, a PVE server. I was a total noob and my first char to 60 was a warrior that I leveled as prot lol. It took forever and I was running around not knowing what the hell I was doing, but I never died… also took me a minute and a half to kill 1 mob of the same level. Anyways about a year into the game as 60, I was getting bored of the game since I wasn’t raiding at all and couldn’t do more than pug UBRS. But I had gotten my first taste of what a raiding guild is like (as a lock) during a pug MC that a guild had started on the weekends. After 2 or 3 raids they asked me to join, and with some hesitation, because I was leaving a guild that was full of real life friends, I joined. I wanted more out of the game than I was getting. At this point in time I was pvping like crazy because there was nothing else to do and AV were like 5 hours long and games lasted like 16 hours lol. I know a lot of people who were casuals that quit at this point because they couldn’t raid (including my friends =/ ). The reason I’m pointing this out is because I think the first thing to consider when looking for a raiding guild is how serious of a raider do you want to be. So I started doing MC on a normal basis and it took my crappy guild at the time a month to down Lucifron lol. There were a lot of horrible players in my guild, but I wanted to raid, even though it was extremely painful, so I settled for it since all I had was Dreadmist (which was horrendous btw) at the time. After a while I decided it wasn’t enough to progress at a rate of one boss per month and endless stupid wipes, so I had followed a WoW friend into another guild that had cleared MC and was deep into BWL (I didn’t need to apply). At this point I had two pieces of tier 2 and the rest were blues (I know it might be rare but even with limited gear you can still get into guilds that outgear you completely). At this point in time, at least on my server, very few guilds had an application process, and most recruiting was done by talking to officers, word of mouth etc. A lot of guilds were forming from consistent pugs at this point too. My guild was extremely late in killing Nef, but it was ok for me at the time. AQ40 had come out and I ended up taking a 3 month break. Coming back from breaks is always rough, usually your raid spot is filled, and you get gkicked because of it, unless you got social ties to the officers of the guild. Also you come back and find out your friends vastly outgear you. So I found myself guildless and joined another raiding guild (I had full T2 at that point). I found it impossible to get into the top raiding guilds though, so I settled for something that was an ok raiding guild I guess. From there, another WoW friend I had made told me a new raiding guild was starting up (this was right at the start of BC) and I should leave and join with him. This is the first guild I am going to name just because I have some pride in this guild lol. The guild’s name was No Dice. This was the first guild I ever became an officer in and also the first guild I was ever in that had a server first… Prince. We also had server 2nd for HKM (we 23 manned it with 1 lvl 67) but lagged on Gruul, mostly because we were shorthanded (never enough healers out there). I quit the guild at one point because me and the GM got into a fight about how hardcore we should be (I’m always pushing for the harder). With nowhere to go, I posted a thread on the cross server guild recruitment and got into a guild on the Bloodhoof PVE server. Within 3 months that guild fell apart and I had to look for another guild so I went to Dark Twilight on that server. I stayed there til I got sick of wiping on Bloodboil for about a month. Some of my friends that followed me are still on that server. One still in that guild… I also left because I didn’t like the officer getting pattern loot priority. That is something that matters to me. So I ended up xfering back to Malygos to be with some of my old friends again and I joined one of the guilds I had always to be in when I first started raiding (it was one of the top guilds on the server) which was Fortis. I stayed there (keep in mind this is all pre-nerf) up til we got to Brutallus, then being sick of the game (never truly sick since I’m an addict) and wanting more time back in the real world to do my homework etc. I quit the game for about 5 months and decided to come back when WoTLK came out. So I spent 70-80 guildless. At 80 I posted another thread on the cross server recruitment forums and ended up here in Conquest. I will post a link to this post later I can’t find it right now.

    I wrote my background so that I could use it as an example as to some suggestions I am going to make.

    If you are looking for a raiding guild, the first and most important thing to consider before everything is…

    What do you want from it?

    I will tell you something that you will want from it, no matter who you are, which is Organization. Syd mentioned, but I really do want to reiterate this, because the less organized your guild is the less likely it will survive. The guild on Bloodhoof that fell apart that I joined disbanded because the GM didn’t log on for 3 weeks at a time. This is a definite sign that the guild will fail. When searching for a guild always look at the website and make they have the basics like vent. The website says a ton about the guild, even if it is a guild that is starting out.

    Loot system/priority

    Do you care about loot? All people do to some extent. I kind of don’t unless it comes to patterns. Don’t ask me why but I can’t stand guilds that give officers patterns first, that will make me want to leave the guild instantly. Patterns rarely drop and I personally want every possible pattern I can get so it irritates me.
    Find out what loot system are they using and know what the typical loot systems are. There are 3. Straight DKP, Zero-Sum DKP, and loot council. I am going to be honest here which may go against my guilds wishes lol. Loot council generally tends to fail. I will explain why. I’ve been in three guilds which have loot council. The first guild failed because they didn’t do enough research on loot itemization for every class. This is pretty important. If a hunter gets Binding of the Thunderfury before a rogue something is very wrong (which did happen in one of my guild). The main problem with loot council is that you honestly never ever know if your officers have favorites or not or how truly fair they are ever being. Also loot council means that someone will always be upset it the item didn’t go to them. Which in the long run if the players in the guild care about loot more than progression will cause some to leave. I personally am fine with the current system just because I care more about just being able to raid all the time. In my experience and I’m saying this to anyone looking for a guild no matter what loot system they use if your guild is organized and can progress you will get all the loot you want eventually. If you can’t wait for loot, I don’t think you should be playing this game especially with the way blizzard is going with the items (JC patterns require you to do 3 months of dailies before you can get them all etc.)

    To Be Continued… I gotta go I’ll start talking about the other loot systems pros/cons and what else to look for.

  20. cont…

    There are those exceptions to bad loot council… which my current guild seems to be =) I really can’t complain at all since I’ve joined. All that I am saying is if you do choose a guild with a loot council system pay attention to how loot is divvied out. Make sure for yourself it’s fair.
    Straight DKP systems are the ones most people complain about and have chances of being both fair and unfair. Always checkout a guild’s dkp page before you join. They will usually be one person with a ridiculous amount of dkp that will be the first to get things like the Phoenix Mount if it doesn’t get jacked by an officer. Look for a balance in numbers though. If everyone is at an even level of dkp that means spending is usually pretty even no matter what the values are. I would recommend against joined guilds that don’t flush their dkp when xpacs come out because it generally leads to them having ridiculous advantages and always make sure there’s a minimum cost per item.
    Zero-Sum dkp systems can be really fair if done the right way. They have to have a max dkp limit that allows you to buy at least 2 items (not just one like most of these systems). If they don’t you will find that gearing yourself up will be ridiculously slow. I tend to prefer this system personally just because it doesn’t allow someone to have ridiculous amounts of dkp, but most people complain that their dkp is wasted when there is a max. A good system zero-sum dkp will allow people to spend their dkp on gbank items of value such as enchanting mats, gems, etc.
    Free Roll only systems really lead to one type of problem which is guild disloyalty. If everything is free rolled people won’t feel the need to stay with the guild once they have their loot.
    If patterns are important to you always ask how they handle them before joining the guild. I generally forget to ask but I always ask when I remember.

    Progression

    I personally aim towards the more hardcore guilds if I can. Always check where a guild is at and how long it took for them to get there. Also check how often they raid. If they raid 3 times a week but cleared the game in 2 weeks, you know they are going to be extremely serious. If a guild has been stuck on a boss for months, sadly they will probably be stuck there for a lot. That is usually the result of poor organization. It is important that you can get the max raid hours you want to raid every week. Really important that their schedule works with yours. Also go to their server if you are switching servers and check your latency and their economy. Check the prices for thing on AH… if BT just came out and a heart of darkness is like 50g you know the server is going to have some extremely good guilds (I know that example isn’t realstic, just making the point). Here’s a current issue for me… does the guild care about achievements? I do personally, I don’t think I’d gquit if they said they weren’t going to try at all, but I would probably be extremely disappointed. Also consider what type of raiding you want to do, 10 or 25 or both. 25 will always yield better items which is pretty obvious.
    Generally guilds that vastly outgear won’t take a second look at you BUT personally if I’m an officer I look at your dedication to the game. I would want to know your /played. I would look at how many exalted factions you have and which. Like if you are exalted with Sons Of Hodir, I would be pretty amazed right now. And how much gear you’ve gotten from badges/heroics etc. This stuff does count. I’m not saying all guilds will pay attention to this stuff but the smart ones will. If you have very little gear from raids work on all the gear that you can get outside of it. Of course you aren’t going to get into the top raiding guild on your server. But you can work your way up. I did several times from nothing. Every xpac also allows you a fresh start on gear allowing you to be competitive for those raid spots. Also you don’t need to have the best gear to top the dps and healing meters. It helps but skill is what counts. If you have that and guilds see it you will get very far in this game.

    Raid Slots

    I cannot stress this enough. I highly recommend not joining a guild that needs you as a sub or rotates out your spot constantly. Or says we need this one class over yours more often… most of the time if they say that they are idiots. Sometimes it is necessary though. You will find that you will not be happy if you aren’t getting into raids. That is the thing I care about most so I always try to perform my best in order to have no doubt I am going to get into a raid. You should be performing your best if you want your guild to progress anyway. If you find yourself sitting out too often it isn’t worth your time and I would recommend finding a new guild.

    Advertising/Applying

    When posting on recruitment forums, make sure you give them enough information to make them interested in you a potential guildee.

    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?forumId=7244843&sid=1&topicId=12891419840&pageNo=1&amp;

    If the link works that was my post. Also pay attention to a guild’s application. Make sure they put some thought into it. If it looks like crap there is a problem. Also make sure you take the time to fill it out properly. Pay attention to what they’re saying. One app I filled out asked if during a boss encounter if I screwed up and wiped the raid could I deal with hazing for a week nonstop in gchat and vent. I don’t want a guild like that but if you like army/frat style guilds it might be right for you.

    If you read all this I hope it was helpful. A lot of this is based off of my experience in WoW.

  21. Sydera –

    Just wanted to commend you an an excellent article. Very well written, covering all the really important points and all of it is so true.

    I have lived many of those situations and for someone looking to get into a competent guild, they need look no further than what is covered here.

    Thanks and have a great holiday!

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