Is Applying to Multiple Guilds a Sin?

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Found this intriguing question on Twitter today that was directed to me. I’ll try to paraphrase it as best as I can.

”Is there anything wrong with players applying to multiple guilds?”

From my perspective, no. The way I see it, if I’m a guildless player who is looking to get involved with a raiding guild somewhere, I’d take the shotgun approach. I won’t get into why such a player should or shouldn’t apply to this type of guild. Let’s assume that I’ve done my homework and have answered the self-help questionnaire on the type or guild I want to be a part of. For example, I want to be in a raiding guild that’s just started Ulduar and is utilizing a DKP system that happens to only raid on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays from a period between 6 PM – 12 AM.

Let’s say I hit the jackpot and there happens to be four guilds that fit the criteria.

From the applicant perspective

Why not? I want to raid. It doesn’t matter to me which guild I get into as they’re all pretty much the same. I’m flexible with my hours. I can raid from 7 – 11 PM for example. The time frame I listed above is the window that I am willing to commit myself to raiding. By applying to 4 different guilds, I get to maximize my chances. The odds are higher that at least one of them could use the role that I play.

From the guild perspective

It’s nice and flattering to hear from a player that they’ve looked only at your guild and want to be a part of it. They didn’t even consider any other option. What if the applicant doesn’t fit or if you don’t have room? It’s nice to know that the player has some other plans to fallback on. It kills me whenever I turn down a player sometimes. Some of them genuinely deserve good guilds to be a part of and wish to contribute to raids. Sometimes there’s just no space.

I’ve seen guilds who adopt this attitude that their guild is awesome. In fact, it is so damn awesome they can’t fathom why anyone who has applied to their guild also applied to other guilds. Clearly it’s an insult to such guilds. When a guild gets wind that an applicant also applied elsewhere, they just shoot them down. On one hand, it makes the process a little easier for the app as it does weed down the number of remaining guilds.

Cover your ass

When I applied to post secondary schools, I applied to no less than 3 institutions. Why? because I knew there was a very real chance that I would get rejected. It’s the same mentality when applying for jobs. Apply to many as you can and see who wants you. Then from there, you take the best possible offer.

There’s nothing wrong with the business sense. Don’t try and pull the loyalty card here either. The guild hasn’t accepted the applicant yet. There’s no incentive for them to be that loyal so early. When a player of outstanding calibre happens to apply (let’s say a player with Immortal or Champion of Ulduar or something), it’s up to the guild to change gears and sell themselves. The guild has to essentially put up a neon sign that says “JOIN US!” Ultimately, the decision is always going to belong to the applicant whether they accept or otherwise. If a guild truly wants that player, they’ll start talking and eventually extend an invite. If not, the guild will pass and one of the other guilds might consider the player.

It sure as heck saves a lot of time, too. Lots of guilds have response rates varying from hours to days to even weeks. If I were planning to raid, I’d apply to all the guilds at once. However, if there was one organization that I’d want to join, I’d make it known to them that they were my first pick. Would other guilds feel slighted? Well, probably. But if they needed the extra set of hands, they’d overlook that. If they didn’t, then the applicant would get turned down anyway regardless. It’s certainly faster than applying to one guild, waiting for a response, getting rejected, and then repeating it with a different guild over and over.

Applying to multiple guilds allows players to gauge the level of interest a guild has in their services. There’s nothing ethically wrong with that.

Image courtesy of woodsy

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About Matticus

Matticus is the founder of World of Matticus and Plus Heal. Read more of his columns at WoW Insider. League of Legends player. Caffeine enthusiast.

Comments

  1. I think the way your application (to multiple guilds) is received also depends on the quality of that application.

    If I posted a poorly written, short application that obviously took me all of 5 minutes, and basically replicated it for several guilds, they would probably all go hunting, see I had applied for several guilds, and decide I was just throwing applications around with little regard for where I actually get into.

    On the other hand, if I posted an epic application that showed clearly that I knew my class and I was willing to put in the effort to spend half an hour on my answers, I think those guilds would likely go hunting, see me applying to several other guilds, and perhaps think “uh oh, if we don’t grab her, one of these other guys might.”

    As a guild leader, that is how I would look on someone who has multiple applications floating around. If they obviously took 5 minutes and the application is full of one-word answers, it would seem like they really don’t care where they land, as long as they find someone to loot train them. If the application is thorough and they seem like a good player and a good “catch”, then I would see those other applications as competition, and be more likely to want to snap them up – so this might work in favour of the applicant, rather than against them. Competitive guilds don’t want good potential raiders to slip through their fingers.

    I think if I was running a guild again, the application would still have the question, “Are you applying to any other guilds?” because yes, i would like to see if they were (and what they were saying in those applications, and how many times they had posted). But personally, I don’t look down on people for applying to a few guilds at once.

    More than 3 at once and I might start seeing it as a bit of a “spray and pray” approach though 😛
    .-= Keeva´s last blog ..Half gnome, half bird, all wrong =-.

  2. I see your point, especially with 100% raiding guilds. But for example even though my guild raids, we don’t consider us a raiding guild, but more a guild of people who like playing the game together. And to be accepted with us, you need to “fit in” and want in our guild. Not because we are badly imba, but because we represent a style of playing and people you want to play with.

    Oh, and as Keevy said: How the application is written is quite important and if someone writes, that he is also applying to other guilds, its allright with me too. Honesty always helps a lot. 🙂
    .-= Baraan´s last blog ..Ulduar is hard indeed =-.

  3. I’ve blogged a response to this. (and wish I could get trackbacks to work :p). In short:

    Honesty and reasoning go a long way when applying to multiple guilds. If you can explain it well and are upfront about it my guild will almost never make a fuss. If you on the other hand hide your multiple applications and aim to just get in the best guild possible then you’re pretty much out of luck if we find out.
    .-= scrusi´s last blog ..Applying to Multiple Guilds =-.

  4. I’ve actually seen guilds closing an application just because the player applied elsewhere. Some do take it as an insult. Like you must show your devotion to that guild to be worthy of an invite.
    But something similar does happen in the business world eventually. Some recruiters do respond to job applicants who show “determination” to get a position at such company, under such executive, rather than just wanting to get a job. That’s not all that counts, but it counts sometimes.
    .-= Wangari´s last blog ..Speculation Cataclysm =-.

  5. But the truth is, I would rather join a guild that had a difficult application and testing process, because then I know everyone passed the test and there may be a minimum level of competancy. In the same way, wouldn’t a guild want a player who looked around and picked them over other guilds? Then they know “this person looked at his options and picked us”. Instead of “this person picked the first available guild, who knows how happy they’ll be or how long they will stay”

    If everyone is being discriminating in both who you join and who you accept then it only improves the match between guild and player. Instead you have people guild hopping to whoever is doing well performance wise, not who is a good match overall.

    In reality it should work like that more often, instead of the way it does now where people feel insulted. That whole feeling is due to the fact even raid guilds are treated as more than an organization to progress, but require some emotional committment as well. Maybe they see themselves like sports teams more than businesses, but sports teams only use those motivational techniques because the mental game in a player’s head is important to their performance. Is that true in WoW or other MMOs?

    Why would such an emotional commitment be required of players.

  6. I don’t see why this is an issue. When we get an application, I’m not going to put in the time and effort to try to see if you’ve applied elsewhere. If it’s a horribly-written, piss-poor application, I don’t care who else sees it because I’d rather they take you than us consider the possibility. If it’s well-written, thoughtful, and communicates that you know what you’re doing, I assume you’ve applied to multiple guilds because you’re the kind of applicant that’s in-demand. Either way, I’m using my ti me for researching applicants to look for instances of drama on their realm forums and to do a character history on WarcraftRealms.com.

  7. One of the questions on our applications is, “Have you applied to other guilds?” One of the required readings before filling out an application states in it that we do not accept applicants applying to other guilds. It’s a quick way to find out that a person is not only breaking a rule, but also not reading the info we need them to have going in.

    Ultimately, we don’t have a lot of time in a given week to deal with applications. We aren’t going to spend the numerous hours interviewing then even more doing trial runs only to find out that they’ve went elsewhere. Yes, perhaps this isn’t the ideal situation for the applicant, but the reality is our guild doesn’t need people and hasn’t for years.

    It really comes down to who has the power. If your guild needs to recruit people then this is the type of thing that you should probably wave. If your guild doesn’t though, I’d absolutely insist on this.
    .-= Veneretio´s last blog ..The Upgrade that 15% of you can’t even afford =-.

  8. If only raiding and guild success were as simple as

    “Does my schedule align with their raid schedule?”

    In reality even though WoW / guild decisions seem like business decisions, with the two sides filling a need of the other, they ultimately morph into personal relationships. You might join a guild because of their raid schedule, dkp system, or progression but the best guilds retain members because of relationships they establish with one another.

    Is it disingenuous to walk into a bar, spot three equally attractive women, and explain to them that each meets your standards for what you’re looking for in a partner and you’d like to date them all, first one to jump at the offer wins!? Maybe guilds aren’t exaaactly the same as women, but both sides in the applicant/guild dynamic want to be pursued and wanted.

    Guilds have standards for their applicants and more importantly they want the applicants to have standards for the guilds they’re applying to. If someone can’t go through a week recruitment process and is more interested in getting into ANY guild that fits their schedule, and not the right guild for them, then that doesn’t say much about that person’s standards.

    Choosing a guild is a big deal! You’re going to spend 15+ hours a week with these people, for many months/years hopefully. If you’re looking at four guilds and they all look the same to you then you’re not looking hard enough, every guild is different and one probably fits you best.
    .-= Matron´s last blog ..Council HM Down =-.

  9. “Why would such an emotional commitment be required of players.”

    Well, from a guild leading perspective I have many reasons for wanting my players to be emotionally committed. I have seen many medium progress guilds that would lose their better players to “better” guilds simply because these players didn’t feel too attached to their guild. In contrast I have players in my guild that have been with me pretty much since I hit 60 way back when. I’ve had offers from “better” guilds and so have they but we’re still around and together because we feel attached to the guild and the players in it.

    Obviously we have people leaving the guild too – but these days rarely for progress.
    I don’t want to run a 60 player guild where everyone is replaceable. I’d much rather have 30-35 people that are reliable and that I know will stay with me even if the guild goes through a rough spot.
    People who willy-nilly apply to various guilds usually don’t bring that kind of attachment. I’m fine with them joining other guilds and making them fall when they leave again 😛

    Emotionally committed players are also far more likely to think of the good of the guild instead of their own personal good. If the players like their guild they will be doing many things on their own accord that have to be enforced or at least incentivized in other guilds. When we led the information drop that we’d need Potions of Speed for hard modes a while back we had a bank tab full of them two days later. That’s what committed players do.
    .-= scrusi´s last blog ..Applying to Multiple Guilds =-.

  10. Lakland says:

    If someone gets upset because I applied to multiple guilds then they should do me a favor and not consider my application for their clique, I mean guild.

  11. It all depends on the real-world model the guild is using. Based on my work reading guild applications, I believe multiple apps to be pretty common (the applying-to-college model), but I also think that is impractical for a few reasons.

    From the guilds’ perspective, it’s more like the publication model. You send your book to one publisher at a time, at which point it’s their option to say yes or no. If you get the “no,” you can send it elsewhere. This is how I operate because it’s easier on the applicant and everyone else involved. How would it be possible to, say, do multiple trials in a week or keep all the recruiting conversations straight? I think that what guilds, especially top guilds, want is to sort of “own” the player while they’re applying and have the option to bring them in. It’s a pet peeve of mine when I’ve put a lot of time into talking to or setting up a trial for the applicant when it turns out they weren’t serious.

  12. I don’t think I’ve ever thought of applying to more than one at the same time. I mean, I use that approach when looking for an actual job, and for applying to schools… but when I’m applying to a WoW guild, I pick one and stick with it.

  13. I don’t get upset when people apply to multiple guilds in addition to ours. With that said, I do make sure, through the interview process, that we’re not a fall back guild; just in case there was a “first choice” guild that the applicant was waiting to get into and we’re just their “temp” guild. I really don’t like having our guild used as a stepping stone. We try to be a close knit core of raiders and having someone who doesn’t plan on sticking around taking up a raid spot that someone else who is commited to being here is not my ideal applicant.

    I’m all for covering your ass, but always ask that once the decision to join our guild is made that your commited and not going to guild hop at another opportunity.
    .-= Napaeae´s last blog ..Gut Feelings and Drama =-.

  14. Whoa fellas. I don’t want to stray off topic here. Yes, I agree with all of you that stated quality apps do make an impact. That’s not the point at hand here. It’s about the acceptability of applying to multiple guilds and if its “taboo”.

    Matron: While yes, a player ought to be pursuing the guild that’s right for them, the reality is that guilds may not always say yes even after passing whatever exams and tests are thrown their way. Just because a player applies to multiple guilds doesn’t mean they don’t have standards. Its up to the respective guilds to determine what kind of standards that player has. Some players and guilds prefer the emotional investment. Others just want to get in and raid and log off once they’re done. They’re a lot of business minded and professional-type raiders out there (by professional, I mean in their stance towards raiding not like being paid or anything).

    If I’m looking at four guilds, and all were relatively identical, then there is no lose-lose guild. Anyone of them could fit me perfectly. I don’t believe in there being the concept of a… “soul guild”. You know, like “the one” guild that players belong to?

  15. I’ve posted examples of both good and bad multi-applications. I think it can go either way depending on how you apply, why you apply and who you apply to. As you said, some guilds are very business-minded but even they want people that stick around, not people that leave for the next best thing. If somebody goes pick-and-choose while applying to my guild, why would he stop doing that once he’s in?

    Your example I can get – but tbh if you find four similar guilds then you are probably not looking very closely. But I must say that I do believe in a “soul guild” – maybe there isn’t just one and maybe no guild will fit you perfectly, but I know for a fact that there are very few guilds I could even stand raiding in.

    All in all I’m not condemning applying to multiple guilds – but if you do, do it properly and be prepared that some guilds won’t like that anyway. And I think they are very much within their rights to do that. They are looking for a very specific kind of person, you aren’t looking for a specific kind of guild. So probably a no-match.
    .-= scrusi´s last blog ..Applying to Multiple Guilds =-.

  16. I don’t think it’s a sin but it doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence in people if they apply to multiple guilds at once. Surely they should be applying to one guild because they like it and like the people, not just for a purely materialistic reasons.
    .-= We Fly Spitfires – MMORPG Blog´s last blog ..Where Do You Read Your Blogs? =-.

  17. Matt: Well your initial standards, in your example, were

    1. Starting Ulduar
    2. DKP
    3. Specific raid schedule

    That’s a million guilds, not just three or four! Perhaps in a real search for a guild you’d choose more specific standards and your example standards were chosen for simplicity’s sake.

    However, as you get into more definite standards for joining a guild

    1. Specific Age Ranges: (20+ to 40)
    2. Specific raid environment: (Casual “We’ll get it next week guys!” VS. More hardcore “We’re close to downing this boss, let’s stay up an extra hour to get it done this reset”)
    3. Specific Raid Leadership styles: Is the raid/guild leader new to the job? Have they been around the block a few times? Do they take charge, ask for input, let the mob run the raid?
    4. Vent atmosphere: (Laid back, busting jokes, talking about movies during boss attempts VS. Raid leader only talking, single voice directing action VS. Multiple people communicating, welcoming input from everyone in a serious manner)
    5. Raid/Class composition: Are you the 4th holy priest? Are you sitting for all the progression content? Are you going to be asked to play shadow two months from now?
    6. Guild History: Is this a new guild? Reformed from two smaller, failing guilds, with the same leadership intact? Has this guild been more casual for two years and is ramping up their raiding scene?
    7. Guild-Chat and off-hours atmosphere: Are you going to want to be in vent talking to people outside of raid time? Do you want guild pvp or arena teams? RP or World PvP?

    Where there were a million guilds that fit your generic requirements, knowing what you really want out of a guild, knowing the atmosphere and leadership style under which you’ll improve as a player and enjoy the game, should be paramount to guild choice. Every guild is different.

    Sure you could play spin the bottle with those 4 guilds which are starting Ulduar, running DKP, and raiding T-W-Th… and maybe you’ll be happy in whatever guild you land in, or maybe you won’t.

    But finding a guild that you *know*, and that can be as difficult a task as it will be rewarding, and telling them that you belong and would flourish in their guild… selling yourself to them, linking their characteristics to yours… that’s when “more perfect” matches are made. Guild choices that won’t have you gquitting a few weeks or months later, or finding yourself a part of a dying guild, or getting caught up in drama stemming from an ill-prepared leadership core.

    I’m not saying that you don’t have standards. I’m just saying that as you get more specific with those standards, outside of raid time, loot system, and progression guilds almost always differ.
    .-= Matron´s last blog ..Council HM Down =-.

  18. In my guild apping history I’ve had raiding guilds take a week to review my app, and raiding guilds take 10 min to review my app. A week in raiding, when new content is out is a long time to not know if you are unsucessful, i found the guild that did that to me rather inconsiderate, but at the time they were in the position of power, I did the ‘right’ thing and waited for their response before apping elsewhere. It may depend on the realm culture, but even now at higher end raiding its still seen as bad form to app publically while guilded because guilds do have contacts with each other, ( or read each others recruitment forums ) I don’t like public recruitment forums for that reason. Its the business between you and the guild, not you the guild, and who ever wants to sticky beak. If a guild wants to track your history – there are tools around for that, but I agree that there would be times, Eg a big guild disband, where I would be wanting to have choice, and not be at the mercry of an week long response.
    .-= Zahrah´s last blog ..Whats your attention Span. =-.

  19. Zahrah: I can’t speak for other guilds but in my guild’s case we expect people to be willing to wait for a decision. If you are in a rush to get into a guild you probably won’t have the patience to take the delays that come with raiding. So in your case seeing that you did a multi-application would be a perfect indicator of you not fitting into our guild.

    (Please note that I’m still not condemning anything, not even impatience 😛 It’s just not what my guild is looking for in a raider.)
    .-= scrusi´s last blog ..Applying to Multiple Guilds =-.

  20. Looking over some of these comments, I still can’t see where the taboo comes in. You want loyalty to the guild? That’s something that’s built up over time of actually working together. I can read about the guild, I can talk to the guild, but at the end of the day, most people are going to have to actually participate in the guild before they feel any sense of attachment or loyalty.

    For a guild to ask that before applicants even have a chance to play with the guild members is unreasonable. It’s also hypocritical if the guild is willing to consider multiple people for the same open slot and hold initiation periods where new recruits don’t have full permissions and privileges, since the guild clearly isn’t willing to return that loyalty.

    As far as I’m concerned all guild recruiters should assume that the applicant is talking to other guilds. It’s in the best interest of the applicant to look at all of the guilds that will be a good fit for them, and demanding that they not do so just makes the guild in question look arrogant, overly demanding, and insecure about their ability to attract quality applicants.

  21. Matt – I’m confused now as to what you’re seeking in comments.

    You’ve clarified that the topic is whether or not it’s taboo – but it seems like you are making a statement that you think it *shouldn’t* be taboo.. rather than asking whether it is in the first place.

    I think we’ve all seen instances of guilds reacting badly to seeing multiple applications – so if the question is, “Is it taboo?” then the simple answer is, “most often – in the eyes of many guilds.”

    Now – whether or not you or I think that is justified or an overreaction, and whether or not you choose to play it safe and only apply to one guild at a time – that is an entirely different story. Common sense dictates that you should read the guilds’ charters and see whether you’re going to look naughty if you want to apply to a number of other guilds at the same time.

    Did you mean instead to ask why it is taboo? Or to discuss why it *shouldn’t* be a such big deal? Or were you just seeking individual opinions – to see whether people in general (and their respective guilds) considered it to be good or bad? And their reasoning for and against?

    Because the answer to the question, “Is it taboo?” in itself is pretty straightforward.

    Yeah, in many cases, it is seen to be taboo.

    Are you actually asking a question of us, or just ruminating?

    Sounds more as though you are thinking aloud 🙂
    .-= Keeva´s last blog ..Half gnome, half bird, all wrong =-.

  22. I’ve tried both methods.

    I’ve applied to guilds one at a time and wasted weeks of my raiding time waiting for the process to complete.

    I’ve also applied to multiple guilds, been rejected on that basis from fairly mid-range guilds, and been accepted into a couple of very good guilds despite the multi-apps.

    I’ve also run a guild and delt with applications. Personally, as long as the person is committed once they join my guild I don’t care how many apps they have made.

    Gobble gobble.
    .-= BobTurkey´s last blog ..Insightful Earthsiege vs Ember Skyflare Diamond =-.

  23. I’d say, then, Matt that it IS taboo to apply to more than one at a time. The better a guild is, the more of a commitment that application is. Many guilds will even ask a player to do a trial (even transferring!) before they get a g-invite, or else do a 2 week probationary invite.

    My advice to applicants would be to either:

    1. apply only to your first choice and go from there if they say no

    or

    2. keep your multiple apps a secret.

    I would say that multiple applications aren’t really a bargaining point–it’s not like your guild can offer you a higher salary if they think you’re more desired! The offer is just the same for everyone–one raid spot, shiny and new.

  24. The only thing that bothers me is when you want to accept someone, but they’ve accepted elsewhere already. If you’re going to apply to 4 guilds, keep all 4 updated when you make a decision! Hate wondering where people disappear to D:

  25. Keeva: I’m not exactly asking for thoughts or anything. This post is more of a response to the question that was posted to me. Twitter’s fairly limited. Figured I’d cover something more indepth. This isn’t a topic where there’s a universally accepted answer. Some GMs prefer having exclusive rights to an app. Others don’t care or don’t mind (I happen to fall under the latter).

    You’re reading waaaay too far in depth to my post. I am just a simple Priest.

  26. So it’s ok for a guild to keep an applicant waiting 2 weeks, but the applicant has to decide right away?

    It’s ok for a guild to be selective about who they invite, but not ok for an applicant to be selective about what guild he or she joins?

    It’s ok for guilds to look at multiple people and decide which is the best match, but not ok for an applicant to talk to people from different guilds, and decide which is the best match?

    How totally one sided. What’s good for the applicant is also good for the guild, it’s ALWAYS two way.

    What kind of applicant do you want exactly? Someone that wants to raid so bad they’ll take the first offer? Or someone who wants to join you specifically? Someone that will wonder if the grass is greener somewhere else? Or someone that won’t because they’ve already met those other guilds?

    These attitudes some of you have are the exact OPPOSITE of what you find in business and how managers make decisions of who to hire. No one would want to hire someone that can’t articulate their needs, doesn’t know who else is out there and what opportunities are available. It’s just an indication the applicant hasn’t done their homework.

    If you already know people and like them and want to work/raid with someone, then yes it would be wierd to apply multiple places. But if you are strangers and all the applicant knows is your post on a forum, then they have an OBLIGATION both to you and to themselves to talk to multiple guilds and join the one they are a best match for.

    In business there is an expression, the applicant is interviewing the company just as much as the company is interviewing the applicant. Sometimes, depending on the need, one or the other has more power to dictate terms. But no matter what BOTH parties must be happy with their decision.

    To say an applicant can’t look around is basically giving them the impression that the guild is 1. insecure and afraid they’ll choose someone else and 2 not concerned with their happiness because they don’t want them to look around and pick the best match.

    All the other things poeple talk about, how well you get along, how much you like each other, if you really care about that, you’d say “yes go try out those guys next week too, and the end of the 2 weeks let us know your decision” that is the only response that indicates you want what is best for both parties.

    This is why I have always felt the best guild leaders have leadership experience in real life. This often is from work but can be from elsewhere. To say “we can look around for the best match but you can’t” is simply ignoring the applicant’s needs and won’t get you great applicants. Good ones, sure but not great.

    It just blows me away that a manager who has money and their livelihood on the line will usually expect and encourage people to look around and decide only when they really know what they want, but guilds with nothing but raiding time on the line will be more draconian.

    And if you’re concerned that the person is not looking for a good match but only for who is further along in progression? Well then why do you want them so bad? they’ll just leave later anyway. Your interview process should weed them out, simply applying doesn’t tell you if that is their motivation.

    Incidentally even in the working world I have had managers tell me I have to decide right away not go to my other interview, anyone saying that raises an immediate red flag that I don’t want to work there and never have joined when someone said that. Sometimes recruiters try that and I laugh and tell them if they don’t want to torpedo their client’s chances not to push the hard sell, let me decide what is best for me and the company I choose will be better off.

  27. @yunk: Nobody is saying you shouldn’t look around, quite the opposite in fact. What I at least am saying is that applying to multiple guilds is a sign of you NOT having done your homework. If you think that my guild is just like those other three over there then you’re wrong. (And that’s not me hyping my guild or anything. Not saying we’re better, we’re different!)

    Yes you obviously build loyalty over time – but some people plain fit better in some guilds than others. People who don’t care where they land as long as they land somewhere with roughly fitting times and rules are definitely not what we’re looking for.

    Should applicants interview the guilds too? Definitely. In fact, I have advised applicants before (very good applicants!) that our guild might not be enough for them and asked them to think hard before joining us – for their own sake.
    Don’t forget though that applicants have all the time in the world to get to know the guild before applying. They get the guild’s “application” (website), they get to know the guild’s performance (progression, logs) and they have the opportunity to talk to as many members and/or officers as they can get hold of. That process is finished with the application.

    But let’s, for argument’s sake, look into what it would mean for my guild to allow people a week’s time to decide after we invited them. Let’s say we open DPS warrior recruitment and have 4 applications. One of these we reject right away, one is brilliant, one good and one OK.

    In our current system we would, within a week, take the brilliant one and let the others know that they are out of luck.
    In the supposedly “fair” system we would notify the brilliant one, wait a week, notify the next one, wait a week and so on. That means the OK warrior would have to wait for 3 weeks after his application before even getting an answer. And the guild would be out a warrior for that time.

    Another option would be to deny the other 2 right away and just hope that the brilliant one joins us – but if he doesn’t we’re f’ed. And the other warriors lost a chance on the spot.
    .-= scrusi´s last blog ..Applying to Multiple Guilds =-.

  28. Dynalisia says:

    As something similar and related to this topic, it could also be interesting to discuss the publicness of application systems.

    I think that probably the majority of guilds out there have a public recruitment forum where applicants have to post their application for the entire world to see, and guild members might drop a few notes on it. Sometimes guilds also do their official communication with the applicant via the thread they made.

    The guild I created uses a private application system and does (at least initial) its official communication with an applicant via PM’s. I realize that some people don’t like the idea of this, mainly because it could be seen as encouraging ‘poaching’ and similar things. However, the whole taboo of poaching is much the same as the one discussed in this thread, since the practice of getting your foot in the door with a new organization before you leave your current one is very normal in corporate life. Just the same, people don’t want to be unemployed if they can avoid it.

    In addition, if we accept the validity of the ‘multi-app’ taboo, then private applications could be seen as supporting that as well, because private applications make it impossible to know if someone is apping to more guilds than one and could therefore possibly encourage such behavior.

    My own reasons for going private is that our recruitment process has always been very in-depth and personal and the stuff we talk about with our applicants is simply nobody’s business but ours. In addition, I don’t see any benefit to having a public forum to begin with. It might impose a few ethical or moral strictures on applicants, but if you know your job as a recruitment officer/team, you should have no trouble sifting objectionable people from your applicant pool anyway. Sometimes good decent people are stuck in a tricky situation and getting yourself hung up on nonsensical ethical norms is counterproductive for everyone.

    And while this would never be an issue in our guild, I often see downright disgraceful things taking place in other guilds’ recruitment forums. Applicants being rudely talked to by members of that guild, or even their officers interacting with the applicants in such a way that it makes you wonder why people would even want to be part of it in the first place. Admittantly, this behavior seems to occur mostly when the applicants themselves are what some would call ‘trash’, but that is still not excuse. Especially because that guild themselves are in control of the kinds of applicants it attracts.

    Do you people have any thoughts about this? Or am I digressing too much with this, Matticus? If so, I would love to see some seperate discussion about this subject.

  29. The second time I was out shopping for guilds, I checked out very many, but narrowed it down to two choices. I don’t think that there was anything wrong in looking at both, and I was honest in my applications. Sometimes, you just need to know more about a guild before you can choose it – and sometimes you only learn that in an interview process and listening in on a raid, both of which are opportunities usually only bestowed upon potential recruits.

  30. I don’t see any problem with it. I was looking for a raiding guild for my Paladin on my old server once she hit 80 and got some decent gear. I applied to 5 guilds, 2 or 3 (can’t remember for sure) accepted me. I had my ‘interviews’ with them and looked at the key raider’s profiles (gear, achievements, etc.) to see which of those I think I’d like best. I then let the guilds that I didn’t go with know politely what was going on, and I got the feeling that they were totally OK with it.
    If you’re only applying to one guild at a time and get denied, you’re missing out on about 3 or 4 days of raiding per guild app? Why waste the time, app them all at once and save yourself the time. And, since most guilds have a pretty standard app form, you can pretty much copy/paste from one to the other (your answers, not the whole form ;p )
    .-= ShieldSlam´s last blog ..Tanks and Threat Generation =-.

Trackbacks

  1. buffd.net says:

    Is Applying to Multiple Guilds a Sin? | World of Matticus…

    Good post by our friend Matticus on whether it’s a sin to be in multiple guilds….

  2. […] to someone applying to my guild as well as others at the same time (not everyone has that same opinion).  I’m also HEAVILY against someone applying to a guild when they already have a guild.  […]

  3. […] over at World of Mat­ti­cus just blogged about the ques­tion of whether or not apply­ing to mul­tiple guilds is a sin. His opin­ion is […]

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