Never Ending Gearing Cycle

I’m just tired of it.

It’s not the gearing myself up or my alts. That’s not the problem.

It’s the seemingly never ending state of recruiting. We get a number of players who apply, their application looks good and they fit the player profiles that we’re looking for. Except a good number of these tend to be players that have just gotten back into the game after missing an expansion or a patch cycle. So they get that itch to play again and we fit what they’re looking for.

The problem? They’re a little bit behind on gear. They’d do well going into the opening parts of say, Throne of Thunder. But they’re in no shape to adequately compete in the heroic aspects of it yet.

Now it’s perfectly okay to carry a player through the heroic stuff. It’s possible to do that if that heroic boss has already been killed and is on farm mode. But start adding two, three, or a whole group’s worth of new undergeared players, and it adds up. Enrage timers start being  harder and harder to reach.

I understand that for new 90s, it’s really easy to get the gear. You can craft some stuff with the Haunting Spirits. You can buy certain BoEs. You can participate in the various catch up mechanics but that gets you up to the floor of doing the normal mode stuff. Then we as a guild need to farm that normal mode stuff and rely on the right drops to adequately gear out the newer players and give them the equipment that they need. Then inevitably, the veteran players end up quitting the game because of a new job, school, or a boyfriend/girlfriend or our pace is too slow and they switch guilds and we have to start the cycle all over again.

Should be happy that I have a guild that’s even raiding but the constant act of attempting to gear out new recruits and players is taking a toll on me. And I know it’s taking a toll on the older players. They’ve already done their time. They’ve already killed the normal mode bosses and by all rights they deserve to be wiping and killing heroic mode bosses. Every patch is a limited window to kill stuff before it becomes irrelevant. It’s hard to swim for the finish line when you’re spending more effort trying to stay afloat.

Sure it sounds like I’m ungrateful. Honestly, I’m quite happy and thankful with the crew here. But there’s a part of me that’s just exasperated to all hell. It would just be golly to pick up geared players that don’t need to have that stuff crafted or already have most of the items that need from normal mode.

Wyn keeps telling me to call it a career and retire. Still latching on though and not ready to do that yet even though I’ve watched hundreds of people pass through this guild.

Not yet!

About Matticus

Matticus is the founder of World of Matticus and Plus Heal. Read more of his columns at WoW Insider. League of Legends player. Caffeine enthusiast.

14 comments
echelaunch
echelaunch

Hey Matt,

Remember our first Sarth 3D kill?  One of my all-time favorite gaming moments.  It's hard to put into words how awesome that feeling was.  Some of the stuff we did in Ulduar was up there as well.  I hope you've had lots of these moments in the ensuing years, even if I wasn't there for them.  Hang in there buddy, see you at Blizzcon. :)

- Eche

Balkoth
Balkoth

"I don't see any downside here and blizzard should really consider this as a quality of life improvement and a vastly needed tool for GM's to be able to maintain the ranks within their raiding groups."

 #1: gear can be given to any guildie - if gear drops for someone not in the raid, it can be given to them.  If you're a random member, you can be given heroic raid gear if no one wants it.  It breaks the link between effort and reward.

#2: guilds collapse.  If you join a guild, get gear for a month, and then it implodes under drama it would stink if you couldn't take anything with you to a new guild.


#3: are people going naked?  If someone deactivates and then comes back or if someone no longer wants to be in a guild, they have all their gear stripped?  What do they do at that point?  Try to apply to another guild and beg them for gear so they literally aren't naked?


There's three huge downsides right off the top of my head.

george3k
george3k

If there was ever one feature that should be in every GM's toolkit that Blizzard should provide is a way to flag gear as "Guild Gear" that when someone deactivates their account or leaves the guild, the gear is automatically mailed back to the GM. Things like loot from guild raid runs and stuff that is crafted would fall into this category. Think of it as guild heirloom items. this way new recruits can use that gear that has already been grinded by the guild and the guild doesn't have to go through constant up/down cycles through natural attrition. Thinking back to my times as a GM, was one of the most frustrating things to put time and investment into someone only to have them decide it isn't for them and gquit or leave the game or transfer their toon. GM's have to be given more to be able to hold on to gear and more rapidly pass this on to the next generation of recruits. And a new class of gear would be great since you can't sell it, and it never is bind on equip so you can swap it with other members within a guild. I don't see any downside here and blizzard should really consider this as a quality of life improvement and a vastly needed tool for GM's to be able to maintain the ranks within their raiding groups.

Balkoth
Balkoth

Almost reminds me of BC (not quite that bad).


This is also the problem with "organic" nerfs via legendaries and gear - it doesn't help your guild in this situation since the new people don't have the inflated ilvl or legendaries.  If ToT was at, say, a 10-15% nerf at this point it would be less of an issue.


In an ideal world, organic nerfs sound better.  You work for the nerfs, it gives benefits to the groups who have been working at it and not to newcomers, and so on...but it really sucks in this kind of situation.

_Gneisha
_Gneisha

Aww, Mattie, we love you too. And once flex modes are in, we can run stuff with the rookies to practice mechanics and get them some pieces before bringing them into the raid proper.

Viktory
Viktory

The iLvl required to get into LFR is adequate for all but the hardest hardmodes.  You recall that many of us raided in mixed greens & blues at the start of every expansion but MoP, the iLvl is a crutch.  The fight's players are faced with require typically less than 75% of the gear potency required to enter the battle, so even being a full tier behind, the challenge is not insurmountable. 

Now, when it comes to fight experience, that certainly is something that can't be rushed, and that may be what's holding a group back from a few kills when you're bringing in rookies, but truly that's when it falls to the rest of the team to execute. Sometimes Gretzky had to play extra hard because of a replacement line-mate.  It happens. 

mattuzzi
mattuzzi moderator

@Viktory I'm just tired of it. Having to constantly retrain and reskill newer players coming in and watching older players walk. That window is always closing. 

Daisy
Daisy

Why'd you delete my post Matt? You so in love with pixel world you don't want to be shaken loose eh? Frightening.

Balkoth
Balkoth

@Daisy

 Regarding leveling: http://balkothsword.blogspot.com/2013/07/i-just-want-to-play-with-my-friends-on.html


Regarding "easy mode raids": speaking as someone who is 13/13H, raids have never been harder.  Nothing in Vanilla and BC outside of maybe M'uru or Kil'jaeden was anything CLOSE to current heroic raiding in terms of difficulty...and I'm probably being very generous with giving M'uru and Kil'jaeden that much credit.


Incidentally, if you miss 5 man heroics that are difficult, you could do challenge modes.  Hell, even the original BC heroics weren't too hard outside of a select few - and I was in a group that had the server first clear on every heroic dungeon (backwater server, but still).

mattuzzi
mattuzzi moderator

@Daisy I like the easy mode leveling. But that's probably because I'm more into end game then levelling. I hated leveling new characters. I just wanted to get to the end and do all this other stuff with other people. If I wanted to play a solo leveling game, I'd switch to Dragon Age or Mass Effect. Agree with the dungeons, but then I earned my golds in Challenge Mode. The heroic raids are still pretty damn hard right now. 

I never quite agree with people who say raids are easy. The heroic raids right now in 5.2 are some of the hardest ever designed in the history of the game. Heroic Primordius and Dark Animus are just ballbusting. I don't even want to look at heroic Lei Shen yet. There are multiple raid difficulties available for everyone of all skill levels. If one's too easy, go up one. Too hard? Go down one. I feel that I'm at the right place in terms of challenge offered. 

Daisy
Daisy

Very fair clarification. I understand that, personally it's no longer for me but I can't argue with the fun you obviously still get from the game. I never got over the easy mode levelling (been a problem for a long time) and the easy mode dungeons and raids, to the point it's just a click fest and you're almost in no danger of dying. I miss the 5 man heroics

mattuzzi
mattuzzi moderator

@Daisy I like killing bosses. This dates back to any game/RPG with a boss (Final Fantasy series, Breath of Fire). I also like team work or coop based games (Counterstrike, Left 4 Dead, League of legends). WoW is an interesting mix between both concepts and it'll continue to draw me back. I am lucky to have a side job where I can actually write about the game and make a little part time income from it. The game offers so many different things to do mainly the raiding aspect, the pet battles aspect, and the PvP portions (again, teamplay with other guildies).

The problem isn't the fact that I'm getting bored with the game. The problem is that OTHER people are getting bored with the game and I have to expend the effort to continually recruit the players who share my same mindset and enthusiasm and that pool is dwindling, yes. 

Daisy
Daisy

I guess, my (badly made) point was the whole game is a never end treadmill of clicking and gearing, the fact it's frustrating you with gearing your guild is hardly surprising ... Face it, you're bored with the game, it's the same old grind ... I think you know It's time to move on but you just don't want to face it right now.

mattuzzi
mattuzzi moderator

@Daisy 1) Trolling. 2) Violates my comment policy. I'll let this one slide though. But nice try in attempting to shake me loose. I'm cool with who I am and so are the friends I do have (both virtual and in the real world). ^^