*update* Real ID is canceled on official forums Blizzard most definitely listened, and it’s a good thing!
So, Vaneras over on the EU forums just informed us that Real ID will be making an appearance on the forums. Needless to say there is a slew of comments slinging around about this. Some people love it, some people hate it. Some say it will be the new life of the forums while others think that this marks their imminent death. So I thought it would be good to talk about it a little bit here.
First off, lets talk about the current state of the forums. There are some good threads there. There are some helpful guides and bits of information. But for each helpful bit there is a counterpart. People that just show up to cause issues, scream drama and pick Internet fights. I know a lot of people personally who avoid the forums just to avoid those specific people. This is a sad thing though, as the forums are set up to help build the community and not to be a source of drama or argument. On a personal level I hate having to weed through 15,000 posts of people complaining to get to the 1 that has a valid point in a discussion. This is obviously an exaggeration, but you get the idea.
Let’s face it, the Internet is a place where people can hide behind a fake name and say and do whatever they want with little to no recourse. This can be simple complaining out outright just being an ass-hat. This Internet anonymity is what Blizzard is trying to take away I think. How many times have they posted a proposed class change only to have intelligent well thought out responses from posters get drowned out by the wailing masses? How many times has a person asked for advices on gear or spec or spell priority only to be called a noob for pages on end? It happens, trust me I know. So I can see what Blizzard is trying to do here, by eliminating the ability to hide behind a character name, that person is held accountable for what they said or do.
Quick story here. I know a guy who in real life is one of the kindest people I’ve ever met. Intelligent, well spoken and would give you the shirt off his back. When he logs into game or on the forums however, he does a complete 180. He yells at people, argues incessantly, turns into a complete womanizing bigot and has a completely abrasive personality. This sounds extreme but it is a lot more common than you think. When you don’t have to be held accountable in real life for your actions, the rules change. The Blizzard forums have been plagued by this from day 1.
By adding this level of accountability Blizzard I’m sure is hoping to cut down on the forum slop by discouraging the trolls from posting, and making people think twice about just posting empty whining.
There is however another side to this coin. There are a ton of people who try very hard to separate their real life from their game life. They post helpful guides to trade-skills, or how to level efficiently on the forums for general reading. They offer insight to class changes and constructive criticism when people ask for help. This group of people also has something to lose by this change going live, as does the community in general if they stop posting. Some people like the anonymity of their toons as a way to just separate their lives into distinct parts. If they stop posting because of this change, that will be very sad indeed.
Some are concerned for their safety. They fear stalkers and real life harassment and fallout from the forums following them into real life. As a person who has worked in internet security for a long time, I can tell you the chances of this are pretty slim. A persons name alone does not provide a ton of information. It does not for example provide your address and township. Your internet providers work very hard to keep that information private as do most websites, banks etc. It is in Blizzards best intrest as well to keep this information private, and so far they have done a pretty good job of it. Unless you have a one of a kind name and are publicly listed in an international phone book or public websites with your pertinent information, the chances aren’t too great that your name will give up enough information about you to harass you outside of your online personae. I understand the concern there, it is a valid reason for being against the change. But it can be rather difficult to find someone .
Another argument is that this goes against the originally stated purpose of Real ID. It was toted as an optional, convenient way to keep track of your friends across servers and even games. Some people feel that being forced to use it to interact on the forums violates this and removes the “optional” portion of the feature. This is a valid argument as there is no way to circumvent this at current.
There are also those of us that this has absolutely zero effect on. Those of us that already live in the public eye and have our names out there will see no change in how we do business essentially. Me personally, doesn’t phase me one bit. My name is out there from the For the Lore podcast and WoW.com. Having my real name show up on the forums isn’t a big deal at this point. I also have the good fortune to have a name that is not exactly unique. Joseph Perez is the Steve Smith of Hispanic names. Try looking it up in the phone book sometimes, it is rather hilarious.
Here are some facts to remember about this
This will only affect the new forums created when SC2 and Cataclysm launch. Old forums and old posts will remain untouched (for now, hopefully this won’t become retroactive)
Blue Posters are not immune to this, and will also be showing their real first and last names
Having your name does not compromise your account security. Email, password (and hopefully you’re using an authenticator) are what let people in. Even if you call Blizzard customer support and say you are “so and so” you have to provide a LOT of proof of identity.
So what do you think? Do you love it? Do you hate it? Will it be a new beginning for the Blizzard forums or will it mark its death?
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UPDATE
Let me clarify something real fast. While the change doesn’t affect me personally I still do NOT like it. I understand what they are trying to do with it, but I don’t think it was thought out enough. On facebook I can go silent, I can turn off chat and no one has to know I’m on. I can hide details like my email, phone number and location, and if I so choose I can change my name on the account. Here we don’t have the option. I do NOT like the idea that choice is being taken away from the gamers. We choose to play this game and who to interact with. Why do we not have a choice in this? I think that the overwhelming response people are having to this is a good thing and hopefully Blizzard will see it and make some changes. But again, I am NOT for this change, but I don’t think it needs to be attacked with nukes instead of calm rational discussion. It is a lot easier for people (i.e. Blizzard) to dismiss an over the top emotional response to this (which don’t get me wrong, it’s a perfectly valid response from us as users to be passionate about this change) as opposed to when people calmly lay down why they don’t agree with it. That’s all.



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[...] l2p: Vergib deinen Feinden, aber vergiss niemals ihre Namen. 5SecRule: Real ID – Posten im offiziellen Forum nur noch mit Realnamen und Shitstorm Rising – RealID und Foren zum 2. Reefchen: DAL Senior Gamer: Phase 3 USA Today: Blizzard and Facebook’s friendly social networking deal launches with ‘StarCraft II’ CAD-Comic: Keep it secret, keep it safe ORF: Namenszwang verärgert Blizzard-Spieler MMOBlog: Auf die Barrikaden! Blizzards Sündenfall mit der RealID. Pugnacious Priest: I can Faciliate My Own Meaningful Relationships The Pink Pigtail Inn: Did Blizzard just miss to do a reality check? und And now what? Word of Matticus: Real ID on Blizzard forums, the good and the bad [...]
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89 Comments
I think they should find different solutions to the forums, I am not supportive of this change at all.
And I’m sorry but I’ve been harassed on the internet before, by people that would post my private information with no remorse, so yes there are people out there who do those kinds of things “just because”. It’s not terribly difficult to hunt down someone’s information or pictures on the internet, especially if it’s tagged to a real name. Forcing this change will only make it worse for some people. There are WORSE trolls out there than the ones on the WoW forums, and I don’t think they are taking that into account.
Nessie´s last [type] ..Shadowmourne-
I felt pretty positively about the change, but the thing that people are saying here that is really making me rethink my position is that this won’t actually discourage trolls. It’s so obvious that I really find it hard to believe that I bought the blizzard line that it would. If they want to discourage forum trolls, they can police their forums like elitistjerks does, and hand out bans like candy at Halloween. Alternately they could force people to post under the name of their character with the most play time, rather than real name. A google search on my name doesn’t turn up anything close to me. My in game persona, however, is the first hit on the US armory. I have to think about the good of my guild when I say things under the name Sthenno.
I do feel like the security concerns are exaggerated. But on the other hand, while posting on the WoW forums will probably be significantly less dangerous than crossing the street under this new system, with 12 million people doing it (much like crossing the street) something very bad is going to happen to someone.
Personally I’ll probably still post on the forums if I have something to say (the only forum I’ve ever posted in is the suggestions forum – batting 2 for 3). But I won’t be using the option to associate my character with my forum post. I’ll just post as a random person with a suggestion about the game. I do have the benefit, though, of having a pretty anonymous real name.
“As a person who has worked in internet security for a long time, I can tell you the chances of this are pretty slim. A persons name alone does not provide a ton of information. It does not for example provide your address and township. ”
Slim does not mean “none.” From what I can tell, I have a unique name in the states. If someone wants to find me, all they would have to do is type it into whitepages.com to get my current address, city, and zip code. A simple Google search will turn up my current (and past) places of employment.
Now granted, that’s a rarity. But you’re dealing with millions of people here. 1% still means 100,000. (My #1 concern is actually one of employment – I don’t want potential customers looking me up and finding a posts about Warcraft … the anti-gamer bias is still strong. Same reason I don’t mention Warcraft on Facebook or any site that uses a real name).
Also, I don’t for a second buy that this is totally about stopping forum trolls. http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gamehunters/post/2010/05/blizzard-and-facebooks-friendly-social-networking-deal-launches-with-starcraft-ii-/1
Blizzard is looking to expand their customer base through social networking sites. Using RealID on their forums will likely make the transition easier.
As far as it goes, it’s easy for me – I just won’t post on Blizzard’s forums when this goes live. But I think it’s a bad move on Blizzard’s part, because I think they’re going to drive a LOT of good posters off of the forums.
Hi
Thanks for your article i think it took up both sides well but I still would like to say that I am one that thinks you are wrong about that you cant find much out from a name. I googled 4 of my game friends names and not only did I find out that one had a company ( address, website phonenr and all) I also could find their kids names, their addresses and what studies they had made ( this was for 3 of them.) One a 16 year old I could not find so much about part from a pic on facebook. Still 75% hit is a bit scary. My own name and my fiances also has links on the internet.
Did you read the Us forums yesterday when a GM posted his name? 30 min and his personal info was posted. Blizz then removed the posts involved. why do that if its so safe?
Even if this only would create issues for 1% of the gamers that posts isent that to much?
But hey its up to us to post or not right? Well some people might be on for a ruf wakeup call if they do.
A person’s name can very well lead to real life harassment. Using web sites like the White Pages or Dex it’s very easy to narrow down a person’s location based solely on the persons name.
Then add that to the person’s casual comment about the weather or something pertaining to their home state and you can narrow the focus even further.
Using only Dex as a search source and content from the few posts I have made over the years on the forums, especially the realm forums I was able to narrow a list down to 6, one of which was my home address and another which was my work address.
It doesn’t take much to track someone down.
Lodur often feels to me like a voice of reason is a crazy World (of Warcraft). Adding a breakdown of logical comments about this situation is just what everyone needs to be reading right now.
That said, “Opt-in” is a scary concept, in some ways. It puts expectations on players to use real ID or not be “real friends” and it pushes folks toward being overly public. Ask anyone who made a Facebook account after friends pushed them toward it.
Calsong´s last [type] ..31 Talent point Trees
>>This is about monetization of the user base, plain and simple.
Exactly. With these two recent changes it’s not hard to predict the future. If Blizz were really trying to combat trolls and griefers they would look at and use any of the previous solutions from the past 20 years of the public Internet.
>>When the announcement was made, to prove a point, Bashiokk revealed his
>>identity because “the chance of harm was really slim” and one of the internet
>>blogs found out tons of his personal information and posted it.
That information about him WAS ALREADY OUT THERE! It wasn’t freshly created the moment he revealed his real name.
What Blizz will do is link that existing info about you to your existing WoW persona, and vice versa. That’s what will be freshly created – the linkage. Stop emphasizing that bad info about you exists on the Internet – Blizz has no control over that.
I felt like the real names on forums issue was a bit overblown, but reading these comments has made me think about it again. First of all, I am a little surprised at myself for buying the line that this will reduce trolling. There’s actually no reason to think that at all. First of all, a lot of people are pretty anonymous even if you know their name (and that they live in North America). Secondly, a lot of stupid trolling is probably done by people who really wouldn’t think twice about how they are representing themselves.
For those of us who care about what other people think of us, we have quite a bit invested in our character’s names. If you google my real name you get nothing that even resembles me. If you armory my character’s name I’m the first one on the list. I already have to think about the in-game outcomes for myself and my guild if I choose to post anything.
I actually think it would be far more effective (if the purpose was actually to reduce trolling) to just force people to post under their character with the most play time.
Just spend 5 minutes on Spokeo.com. I searched for my real name, and as long as you know what time zone I live in (I could easily have mentioned in passing six months ago what time it was at the time I posted) you’ll know which of the 10 results is me. Thankfully, it isn’t ACTUALLY me, rather the listing for my parents when I still lived with them, but they still live there today and who’s to say that a homicidal maniac wouldn’t just go attack them instead as a way of getting to me? Or a less homicidal maniac start sending them hate mail and prank phone calls because of something I said?
Some of my friends were not listed on that site, but some had unique enough names that they were the only match. It is EASY to find personal information about people using only their first and last name. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of websites just like this one out there that will give you this information for free as a way of enticing you to pay them for even more personal details. I’ve used such sites legitimately myself in the past to track down people I was best friends with when I was growing up who now live in completely different cities with different phone numbers.
While it is true that it is unlikely that someone will get this obsessed, and very few people are crazy enough to hunt you down, all you need is ONE person who wants to come to your house and stab you because he disagreed with what you said on the internet. I’m not willing to take that risk for a video game.
Kiryn´s last [type] ..The end is coming — at least for the WoW forums
Personally, I’m against it. It seems like Blizzard to try and name and shame people who misuse the forums and it’s a shame that everyone else has to pay for this. It seems like a very weak case for such a dramatic move.
We Fly Spitfires´s last [type] ..Size Should Matter
I think in principle trying to clean up the forums is a great idea. Basically because of all the chaff that’s on there it’s not the go to resource and community builder that Blizz want it to be. I would guess that the vast majoity of folks would use sites like WoM and wow.com for info and to discuss news before using the official forums (I know I do).
On the privacy sidethe real issue for me is that (cerainly on google uk) my work info page from work is the third hit when you google my name, and that has contact details for me, my boss and the department I work in that necessarily have to be on the internet. The big thing for me is separating my professional (ie ‘real name’) presence on the internet and my personal/recreational/private presence assocciated with things I do in my spare time. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for me to want to compartmentalise.
Mind you I don’t think I’ve ever actually posted on the official forums (I’m easily intimidated) so in a practical sense this will have not effect on me. However, I still think it’s fundamentally wrong.
This post really appalls me. Reading things like “A persons name alone does not provide a ton of information. It does not for example provide your address and township” from a supposed internet security provider really makes me feel both angry and amused at the same time.
See, if a person’s name is John Doe, that’s fine. Your theory sticks.
But if someone’s named Nichole Amerreto.
Natalie Barese.
Miles Cheong.
It becomes quite a can of worms. If people look up real names, they frequently can find their Facebook. Maybe their work had a potluck. Maybe they have a Twitter where they’re named “Natalie” and they just tweeted about “my 80 Paladin.” From there you can find Natalie’s Facebook, or at least her hometown. Maybe her character is evena name she uses for play stuff, like “Bunnybuns.” Maybe she Livejournals about Bunnybuns every month or so.
Sometimes a name can even be really obvious, that if you Google them, you get about 10 real phone numbers and that’s it (thanks to Pipl, etc). You also get ages, so you can generally guess well (i.e. poster seems younger, they’re probably that 22-something Natalie Barese).
The point is, you find a lot of information. And you have her name. And finding her location will take most people under 5 minutes.
It’s a real threat, and while mostly just harassment will come of this, I can pretty much foresee at some point something translating into real life. People already ordered the Blizzard employee dozens of pizzas. What will they do when someone, who is a female, comments about how the new armor design makes her uncomfortable? Call her a prude, find her phone number, call her at work to ask if she wants to suck them off? Send her condoms?
This post is disappointing, and you should feel bad.
Ashelia´s last [type] ..Why Real ID is a Really Bad Idea
RealID could make or break the forums. Yes, I think it will cut down on trolling, (which I love) but I can also see some people running the other way as well. People like the anonymity the net affords. My other fear is that Blizzard is shooting itself in the foot. Big WoW players are usually pretty computer savvy, and it wouldn’t take too many enterprising programmers long to set up a whole new, completely anonymous forum to dominate the need. I’ll be very curious to see what happens.
Put simply, this policy will drive away vastly more legitimate, helpful, mature posters from the forums then it will the trolls. This lessens the value of the forums, lessens the involvement of the players in the community and in the game, and ultimately weakens the game as a whole. Silencing your Minor players, silencing your female players, driving away your mature and helpful players isn’t the answer.
Notwithstanding the fact that I find the thinly veiled threat of “don’t post stupid comments or you will be harassed by your fellow gameplayers” to be an extremely odious and hamhanded way of dealing with bad posters. Just because someone posts “L2P noob” and catches a sicko on the wrong day is not enough of a crime to justify months of potential harrassment or other retributive punishments in REAL LIFE.
I’m a 37 year old professional, I like contributing the odd time to game forums with ideas, quips, opinions and such. But it’s just a game and I need my privacy from the thousands of other users I don’t want knowing my real name. And yes, it’s rare enough that one could likely narrow down who I am – if I wasn’t already so paranoid about privacy that my Facebook account is locked solid and I am unlisted in the phone books. Popular bloggers, media personalities, sports, tv and movie stars, etc probably don’t have this luxury.
Sadly I will never post on a Blizzard forum again when/if this change is put through. It’s a loss to me and a loss to them. And ultimately, when thousands of constructive voices are silenced, it will be a huge loss to their game environment.
“having a persons name in a game where there are over 12 million active accounts doesn’t really help all that much though”
Really?
What if that person has another site with personal information and has upset one of those people shown on youtube smashing stuff due to wow related frustrations? Now they magically have a previously unavailable link between the toon that caused the percieved pain and the person behind it. Also, what of those people (like me) who have unique names, name searches that return 100% relevent hits on google and have peers that look down upon gamers. Now my ability to put food on the table has vanished. In that sense, yes the world will explode for some.
My concern is not that they are asking us to disclose rl info on the forums. That can be easily avoided. The concerns is that this is a precursor to much larger changes that will integrate RL info with a lot of other game features. It is coming sooner or later and quite frankly I am not surprised byt he tone of this article given the background of the scribe.
Pfft…
I’m sorry, but: anonymity is everywhere on the net. And yet not every forum has to deal with trolls.
You know why?
Well…part has to do with the subject. Some subjects (like WoW I guess XD) just invite more trolls than other. But another important reason are the people who are in charge of the forum. Often aided by their lackeys.
Having a good set of rules and people who uphold them makes all the difference.
My favourite forum has no trolls whatsoever because the moment that people break the rules their post gets deleted and they get a warning. They go in the wrong for the second time and their account is locked. I’ve never seen any of the GM’s on the WoW forum do that.
One can argue that the wow forum is HUGE but all that would mean is that individual gm’s just have to work a little bit more, or maybe Blizzard should hire more of them.
I can imagine Blizz not wanting to do that though.
So introducing this system as a way to have more “social control” on the forum looks more like a money saver to me XD.
It might work well, but from the looks of it this this system will create more problems than it will solve. If it will solve any problem at all.
Alyz
P.s: Sorry if I have already mentioned something said earlier. I didn’t feel like reading it all.
although stalking and identy theift may be rare,
if it can happen to one person, then this is one person too many,
the only way I feel that blizzard will find this out is when (god forbid) that someone is stalked, attacked, and seriously injured and the company faces a very big lawsuit.
an easy way to avoid trolls is to ban level 1′s from posting and have all characters on an account visble via a tab on the forum.
What concerns me is the partnership with Facebook. There are enough security issues with Blizzard now, I think my dog hacked into my neighbor’s account and stole his mage. But adding Facebook to the mix with the idea of “data sharing” down the line just gives me the willies.
I went ahead and made parental controls and opted out of the Real ID for slightly different reasons than most people. (Stupid that I have to set it up that way and an adult can’t have privacy, but oh well) I teach and while I like the conversation and rapport with some of my students that develops with some WoW discussions, they do not know my realm, guild or character name. I don’t know theirs. I want to keep it this way. I don’t need instant messages from students or posts from them while playing and I REALLY don’t want them to start trying to be my “friend” or commenting on how long I was on-line last night. I’m pretty sure they don’t want me knowing how much they are playing or asking them if their project is done or why aren’t they studying for tomorrow’s test. This is the same reason I don’t have a Facebook page/account . If I can’t keep my name out of the game, then I stop playing completely.
The forums bothered me simply because it seemed an unnecessary risk to individuals. I never post there, and won’t even with the Real ID taken out. Blizzard had to know that people would be upset with having their information exposed and that it might cost them players. I just don’t think they counted on the sheer number of people who were prepared to stop playing all together if this went through.
I’m incredibly glad they decided to retract their decision to implement RealID on the forums. Its such a relief to know that Blizzard actually listened – it restored my faith in them a little bit.
Now recruiters can go forward and not worry about declining players who may be just a tad too unstable…
Napps´s last [type] ..Blizzard Retracts RealID Implementation on its Forums
My boss is adding me on SC2!!!! This is a pure nightmare.
Now I have to quit the game since I can’t tell him no and can’t let him see I’m there all the time either