
This article, including the title, is inspired by some of the comments on yesterday’s post from Matticus about gauging the success of raiding guilds. I thought that the issue of women and raiding, which appears on the original checklist, deserved its own post. However, I am quite aware that every time a blogger makes a post about gender and raiding, he or she gets excoriated in the comments. Gender issues–and more particularly, women’s experience in WoW–has a tendency to cause temperatures to rise. On the one hand, some commenters protest that there’s no gender-influenced experience in the game. Men and women play exactly the same way, and after all, women are just men with boobs. Still others complain about the bad behavior of women players, claiming that they’re princesses, bitches, or femmes fatales who love to take advantage of gullible men. Another group, mostly women posters, laments the poor treatment they’ve received in the past. I do realize what the comments for this post will look like, but I’m going to give you my take on the gender issue anyway. After all, I didn’t start blogging because I don’t like to speak my mind!
First off, I’ll tell you my overall stance on the issue. I would like to forward the radical notion that women raiders are people. By this, I mean that they are multi-faceted, flawed, and idiosyncratic, just like male raiders. However, women and men are not the same, neither in the game nor in life. We are each influenced by our culture, and how culture treats each of us has a lot to do with gender.
However, I also think that WoW is unique in that it lets us perform–or not perform–our biological sex as we like. I do, by the way, subscribe to Judith Butler’s notion that gender, in general, is performative. By this I mean that what men are, and what women are, is a collection of behaviors that individuals may or may not subscribe to. It is possible, if difficult, in society to “perform” a gender that does not conform to one’s biological sex. In WoW, it is incredibly easy to do so–after all, how many men play women characters? This doesn’t make them weird–they are just taking advantage of one of the fun and imaginative aspects of gameplay. Women occasionally roll male toons as well. I know I personally used to borrow Briolante at level 60 because I liked tanking more than healing and was too lazy to level a warrior of my own. All this is to say that virtual environments like WoW allow us to have a more abstracted approach to gender performance. We can perform differently though our avatars, through guild chat, and through vent–and all of this adds up to some really interesting situations.
At some point, I think I’ll do a whole post on men who play women characters, but for today, I’m really interested in whether women ACT like stereotypical women in the game, and how they go about doing so.
In order to really explore this question, I’d like to look at some of the most common generalizations about women in WoW and share how I respond to each of these issues. I’m not trying to be representative of all women here–as always, I only represent myself. Take from it what you will.
Stereotype #1 Women Are Bad Players
I have put this stereotype at the top of my list because to me, it’s the least true of all. This idea comes from a cultural bias. It’s true enough that video games aren’t often considered toys for little girls, and many women raiders (including me) probably grew up watching our brothers play video games. But you know what? I can sure as hell play WoW now. The #1 thing that gets my goat in terms of stereotypes about girl gamers is the idea that I can’t play my toon because I have boobs. Maybe they get in the way? I’ll assure you, it’s not a problem for me or any of the other girl raiders I know. Estrogen doesn’t cause my addons to fail, and it sure doesn’t entice me to turn with the keyboard. The truth is that there are good and bad players of both genders. Women might be slightly more noticed when they lack skill because that’s what people expect. There’s a natural human bias toward finding examples that correspond to one’s expectations. That doesn’t mean that the old hackneyed ideas are correct–far from it.
Stereotype #2 Women Get Offended Easily
I’ve followed up the least true stereotype with the one that is most true, especially in the context of WoW. Women’s experience of the world is a little different from men’s. A lot of us face gender-related challenges at home or in the workplace. I know I’ve been treated differently all my life–by parents, college, work, relationships–than my brother, and we’re really similar in ability, personality, and upbringing. I can’t generalize what kinds of behaviors bother all women, but I will share the things that do and do not annoy me in-game.
1. Epeen
Some people think women are offended by in-game boasting, but I don’t mind. I’m not sure if I’m typical or not for a woman raider, but I do think that I’m not a participant in the all-boys-big-epeen-club. I don’t mind it, though. When the boys are jockeying for position on the meters, or for the main tank spot, I think that’s funny, maybe even charming. It’s good to have something to strive for.
2. Foul language
I’m not bothered by foul language. Most of those 4-letter words don’t offend me at all, because they refer to things that are universal. For example, anyone can be an asshole, regardless of gender, religion, social class, or race. Therefore, it’s ok by me to see that word–and a host of others that Matt wouldn’t let me write on the blog–in guild or raid chat.
3. Discriminatory or harrassing language
On the other hand, I am extremely upset by racial or religious slurs, and also by “rape” comments directed at female bosses. I don’t like anti-gay language at all either. I think for me, the language question is all about whether it’s hurtful to somebody specific. However, I’m not offended by this type of language because I’m a woman. It’s my life experiences–my job, my friends, my politics–that make me think the way I do about discrimination. It has nothing to do with gender.
4. Being treated like a sex object
I almost never have to deal with this problem. I am never flirtatious in guild chat or whispers, and it annoys me when women behave that way. I’d rather not have my raiding–or instancing, or whatever–be about sex in any way shape or form. But the few times someone–always someone I don’t know–has made a lewd comment to me have really pissed me off. Mild flirting is ok, and I can see how it could certainly enhance a single woman’s experience of the game, but I make it pretty clear to my guildmates that I’m taken.
Stereotype #3: Women are troublemakers
I will amend this one to people are troublemakers. I’ve seen men whine over meaningless things, and I’ve seen women do it to. I’ve seen both genders start dumb arguments over nothing, and I’ve witnessed both genders do their part to break up guilds. WoW players have a tendency to QQ, whether on the official forums or in guild chat. It has very little to do with any certain demographic.
Stereotype #4 Women hate each other
We’ve all seen those tv shows where catty women waggle their fingers and scream at each other without apparent cause. I think that women raiders tend to get along quite a bit better than that–or at least, we’re polite on the surface. I don’t know quite what it is, but competition style does seem to me to be influenced by gender. The men post damage meters, and the women make snide remarks to each other about other women. I’ve met and played alongside women who consider WoW a boys’ club with room for exactly one girl. That’s not me. I feel a lot of solidarity for other women players and I am much more likely to promote and encourage them than criticize them. I don’t get jealous or competitive with other women–I want them to keep playing, more than anything else, so I don’t have to break into the All Boys Treehouse–No Girls Allowed.
Stereotype #5 Women want free stuff
I see this one pretty often, and it really puzzles me. I consider men and women equal. I expect to pay full price for everything I get or buy. I don’t want preference on loot, and I don’t want free money. Now, if you want to give me some greens because I’m leveling enchanting and giving free enchants to guildies on the way up, awesome! I’ll take them with thanks. But if you send me a gift because I’m a woman? I’m sending that crap right back. I have to think that most of the stories of women getting free loot/gold are the virtual equivalent of urban legends. Sure, somewhere there was a basis in truth, but it’s not a widespread occurrence.
Stereotype #6 Women love cute things
Hearts. Puppies. Rainbows. Flowers. Hugs. Lolcats. Yes, I adore these things. And it’s not just me! In my former guild, Eieldin, a female hunter, had a very enviable collection of non-combat pets–before everyone was collecting them. Jesmin, also of my former guild, told even more cat stories than I do. However, I am of the opinion that deep down, everyone loves cute. The object of our adoration may vary, but everyone has a soft spot. What was the one thing that convinced me that Kimbo, Conquest’s raid leader, had to be a nice guy underneath the gruff exterior? He owns a cat. In terms of the game, I play for aesthetics during my casual time. I dress up my bank alts in pretty dresses, and I get a lot of haircuts on my lowbie characters, but you know what? All of that goes out the window when I’m raiding. I put away my little dragons and kitties, shift into Rotten Broccoli form, and get down to business. During downtime, though, I’ll be asking Kimbo about the latest thing his cat did. Kimbo’s cat is awesome.
Conclusions
One of the things I appreciate about Conquest is that, rude and crude as some of the boys are, I’m not treated like a sex object or a giant bitch. In fact, I’m neither. I am myself, full of quirks and foibles. I can do my job a well as anyone else can. The great thing about WoW, and gaming in general, is that men and women have equal potential. Performance in the game doesn’t come down to upper body strength, and all of us can learn how to play our characters at a very high level if we want to put in effort and time. It saddens me that some people have preconceived notions about women gamers, especially when the game world does such a nice job of leveling the playing field. Our virtual representations, our avatars, erase differences–they blur out class, race, religion, creed, and even gender. Heck, the slang and leetspeak so commonly seen in WoW even erase differences in education. You never know who’s behind the computer, and I like it that way. Here’s hoping that the potential for equality someday becomes a reality, if not in WoW, in the next generation of MMOs.


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[...] Matticus, I came across an article written by  Sydera which you can view in it’s entirety here.  Her post in general covers what a lot of women have come to expect being prominent members in [...]
[...] of Matt-who-lives-on-NZ-with-Gal is sporting a great post about female gaming and the general female experience, written by one of his co-bloggers. Sydera is also a tree, so extra props and druid love to [...]
[...] over at World of Matticus regarding gender rolls and peoples perspectives. The article was titled Girls Hate Chuck Norris: On Women and Raiding Guilds written by Sydera and gives an excellent perspective of a women’s experience in a raiding [...]
[...] it comes to WoW and raiding, I think Sydera has got it covered in on women and raiding guilds. I just don’t agree that the anonimity of the game level the playing field. I don’t [...]
[...] WoM, Sydera: I’d like to look at some of the most common generalizations about women in WoW and share how I respond to each of these issues. I’m not trying to be representative of all women here–as always, I only represent myself. Take from it what you will. (Girls Hate Chuck Norris) [...]
70 Comments
Meet Death Knight Kitty! they might be cuddly but still can go feral! I had to…. there were no cat comments and yes I am male, married and have 4 cats.
I was reading at the comments and yes, if a female guildie asks me to help her do something and I have the time I will probably go out of my way to help… then again, if it were a male guildie I would do the same.
For me it does not matter if the people I am in a group/guild are male or female, or a certain age. I am interested that we have a good time in the group. For me that is the point of a MMORPG otherwise I would just play Oblivion again. If the group you are in does not click for what you are looking for, change. As you deal with real people you will get a lot of diversity. The only difference is that in WoW people are behind the mighty [shield of internet detachment]. Here is where you should look at the strength of the values that you have. If you like kicking them out of a raid because they are female, but in rl you play softball in a mixed team, well you are a hipocrite.
I belive in treating people with respect and politeness everywhere, even if it is the annoying 13yr old asking for boosts every 30 min. The same way I expect to be treated the same. To the 13 yr old in the guild, I try to convey this message. I hope I am not failing.
–Grorg
A very nicely balanced post. I’m pretty lucky I guess in that I’ve never to rarely experienced any of the behaviours you outline. I think it’s probably because I’m in a guild of mostly older players (post college). I’ve certainly never had my ability to play well challenged because I’m female.
Jezraels last blog post..Epic flight – old skool style
for the record, crazy’s pup owns kimbo’s cat any day of the week, and twice on sunday.
When I was a wee lil hunter in teldrasil, a female friend of mine (actually, a female friend of a female friend, but w/e) taught me everything I needed to know about the game (earning gold, what talent points were for, what is a tank/healer/dps, the value of not pulling aggro), so I started on the right foot for having an open mind in Azeroth. And I’m a gender confused man who plays a night elf chick, so my take on this issue might be out of the ordinary…
1) I’m a big fan of looking at people by their performance and behavior, not their personal attributes. Organizations in all walks of life are more successful and fun to be a part of if they get that simple concept through their thick skulls.
2) r@pe and g@y are just awful, and the general acceptance of the terms in WoW was a huge surprise to me. When a player who I have respect for uses one of those words inappropriately, they drop down a notch in my book.
3) do girls play wow? i just thought syd’s voice was really high and brio was into that kind of stuff
Amavas last blog post..One Example of Guild Reputation
Does stereotype #1 really exist out there still?
And it’s not just girls that hate Chuck Norris.
kyrileans last blog post..The Ice Stone Has Melted!
It has been my experience, that most women that play wow, play with motivation to “shatter the stereotypes.” When I meet a new female player, I tend to expect more from them then if they were a guy. I currently am blessed to have three female raiders in my guild and they bring a unique dynamic that makes the raid better for everyone. This genre might have been first embraced by males…but we are starting to see a nice complement to it as women carve out their presence in it.
Agronas last blog post..Re: Best Gear in the GUILD!!!
In terms of wanting free stuff.. while it is true that most women don’t want free stuff just because they are women, it would be a lie to say that those who do want free stuff don’t use the fact that they are a woman to make it easier to do so.
As a guy, I have made it a rule to always play a female character because just playing an animated character with breasts gets me preferential treatment.
I don’t have to ask for it, I don’t even pretend to be a girl IRL, in fact most people know I’m a guy, but it does not change the fact that when I play a female character, it receives prefferential treatment*.
prefferential treament generally consists of:
easier to get loot I want,
easier to trade at better rates (for buying and selling),
easier to get away with doing stupid things in raids (I get bored easily…).
people give you free money if you ask for it (i got bored and tried this..)
best of all…
if you play a femail night elf, dress in nothing but a white t-shirt, and ./dance in IF, your lvl 1 bank character can make $20-50g an hour… I did this back in pre-BC days… paid for a good part of my epic mount that way
Ithiels last blog post..New Moonfire Visual
I find this blog article interesting, worrying and fascinating.
Worrying because I do know that a lot of people in the world suffer under unfair treatment due to their gender. Interesting because it spills over in a virtual world. And completely fascinating because I can’t relate to any of it.
I’m a woman, and I’ve been playing mmos for the better part of 10 years now. Always female avatars. I’ve never been treated differently than any other person, never been given loot advantages or gold due to being female. I’m a raid healer, I do my job. I try to do it well and be kind to the people around me. I am a human being before I am a woman. I expect everyone around me to be human beings before anything else too. Gifts given or accepted has always been based on that term. From person to person based on respect and caring.
Perhaps my server is different from other servers? Or perhaps it’s just the guilds and coms I’ve been through. Or perhaps I’ve just blinkered sexist and rude behaviour out so that I could get on with what matters. There are assholes out there (of any gender) and them being assholes their actions and words means nothing and is best ignored.
@Agrona:
“most women that play wow, play with motivation to “shatter the stereotypes.—
Now there’s a lovely contradiction
I tend to find age is the big divide online, not sex. The behaviour of men and women generally, is pretty much the same.
Looking at your stereotypes:
1. Women are bad players.
Anyone who believes that is deluded. Some women are bad players, and so are some men. Men tend to play games more than women do, so the average woman is probably less experienced at games than the average man. That is probably where the ‘girls suck at games’ stereotype comes from.
2. Women get offended easily:
Everyone gets offended easily. Join a pug and see.
3. Women are troublemakers.
True.
Alright, alright. Looking back at various guild dramas, I can’t think of any gender-specific causes. So, not sure where this comes from.
4. Women hate each other.
If the office environment is typical of female behaviour, then I would have to say true. Otherwise I don’t really have a clue on this one.
5. Women want free stuff.
Ah, so all those beggars outside the bank and AH in Stormwind, and the various people asking for “free boost lol” in lfg, are women in real life. I always wondered. Wow.
6. Women love cute things.
/cheer.
I have to admit secretly that I like playing with women more then with men (children?) because they seem to be less “stressed” about the game.
It’s probably a generalizing, but I don’t seem to remember ever hearing a women shout on vent on other players, even if they really did’nt like something. And on wipes they tend to want to learn more on how to perform better then to blidly start accusing others.
At least that’s my experience… So I’m more relaxed when playing with women over all.
I blame Matticus period
I’ll agree with most of this. As a female player, most of the stereotypes are mystifying, but I sure do like non-combat pets!
As someone directly involved with guild politics for raiding through the original game and TBC, though, I’d like to add my thoughts to the “Women are bad players” myth. Many of our best players were women (especially our healers, for whatever reason, but a good few DPSers as well), but most of our worst players also tended to be women. And that made absolute sense and doesn’t reflect on our gender at all. The issue was the treatment of female players by our raid leaders and guild leaders (and I was complicit in this, so I’m not passing off blame).
Many of our female players were wives and girlfriends of other, stronger players. So one issue was that we were reluctant to be too harsh (not that we were ever particularly harsh) on them lest we offend their partners. While we might take a poorly-performing mage to task normally, if she’s the wife of our top dps player or our tank, it becomes a bit more political.
Another issue was that we were a bit too quick to accept stereotypes. Since women are “more emotional” and “worse gamers,” it’s easy to talk yourself into letting someone perform badly to avoid some sort of imagined confrontation. You don’t want to be the one who made the underperforming druid cry, right?
So, at long last, my point: There are good players, and there are bad players. And there are otherwise good guilds that let bad players hang around and underperform because those bad players are women, where if they had been men they’d be out of the raid group. Which, in the long run, does no one any good.
Great post, Sydera… I’m a woman in a 3-night-a-week raid guild run by women, and probably 1/3-/1/2 female populated. We don’t have a lot of problems related to gender issues, period, and I’m grateful for it. I’d like to think most of the WoW world has conceded that women can play as well as men, and in fact, you can never be 100% certain who’s sitting on the other side of the screen, ever…
It’s funny, though, when the occasional kindness has been bestowed upon me (usually in the form of a hand when I’m questing and get tangled with multiple mobs), I’ve always attributed it to me being a healer and not to my or my toon’s gender…
When it has been stuff, depending on the attitude of the giver, I’ve attributed it to anything from a new and lonely person trying to ‘buy’ a friend to someone with just an abundance of stuff trying to get rid of it… Gender hasnt even occurred to me as a possible reason…
Interesting thought and one I’ll have to ponder more…
oh, and for guys playing female toons… a male friend of mine put it well, “If I have to look at someone’s butt most of the time, I’d rather look at a female butt!” Perfectly logical when put like that! ::chuckle::
To me the only relevent point is “Women hate each other”.
I’ve seen this happen at work.
I’ve seen this happen in my former guild.
I wouldn’t call this universal, but it only take a few bad-eggs to spoil life for everyone.
Personally I believe this is an outward expression of internal social (genetic?) programming – women seem to naturally operation outside of heirarchicall organizations, men are more likely to “toe the line”.
As an ealier poster mentioned, women who behave this way like to be “unique snowflakes” in all-male guilds.
I believe that for the rest, its a case of overcomming natural inclinations that allow so many women to succeed.
Regarding the flirting thing – the behaviors that are norms in some guilds, for both men and women, annoy me. And they DO stir up trouble.
I want WoW to be fun and an overheated guild isn’t going to be fun (at least long term it woun’t be).
Broken hearts lead to /gquits.
Same thing would happen in an all-male guild populated with homosexuals.
The problem is not that they’re women and women = trouble makers.
The problem is that they’re potential romanic partners.
The best way to deal with this in a guild is avoid saying/doing stuff you wouldn’t be comfortable saying/doing in real life.
The one stereotype you didn’t meantion is that “Women are more likely to help you if you ask”. This has been my experience and why I end up seeking out the female members of our guild – they’re more likely to say “yes” if you ask them to fill out an instance run or help with a group quest. The male players are more selfish.
Rochmoninoff, I’m not going to disagree your points (as they seem to be based on personal experience), but when women stirr things up for their “unique-snowflake”-drama… a large part of the problem is that men are letting themselves be pulled into that drama. A dramaqueen can’t scream for attention in deaf-mans-land.
Don’t get me wrong.. but I feel a lot men in the wow community are weak when it comes to women which is makes the group an ideal playground for dramaqueens. They’d get to pick their drama flavor of the hour, like kids in candyshop.