Comments on: The No Asshole Rule: Constructing a Civilized Guild http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/26/the-no-asshole-rule-constructing-a-civilized-guild/ Practical advice for World of Warcraft healers and leaders Thu, 09 Feb 2012 07:13:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Just another ex-WoW player http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/26/the-no-asshole-rule-constructing-a-civilized-guild/comment-page-1/#comment-25297 Just another ex-WoW player Fri, 01 Jan 2010 20:21:44 +0000 http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/26/the-no-asshole-rule-constructing-a-civilized-guild/#comment-25297 The fact that there were just too many assholes to deal with was what made me, my wife and a bunch of people we know stop playing WoW. Some times I miss it, the game is actually great fun, but the amount of assholes is insurmountable. There's just too many of them for someone to cope. We tried everything: PuGging, joining guilds, trying to set up at least a 5-man group of acquaintances... nothing works against the general idea that you have to work like crazy, farm food, gold, every kind of resource, all for maybe one chance of getting one damn piece of gear, after a few grueling hours putting up with all kinds of harassment. Also, to note, a guild with only one asshole isn't the norm: usually, most players in the guild are only interested in picking political fights among each other and sucking up to the GL, who obliviously pats them in the head and lets them on with it, until they get bored and leave for a "better" guild. Part of human behavior? Yeah, probably, but I sure can't afford to spend 15 bucks a month on it. I see enough of that filth on my work environment, and I swear, I can't imagine how that kind of atmosphere can be attractive enough to people for them to mimic it in their leisure time. The fact that there were just too many assholes to deal with was what made me, my wife and a bunch of people we know stop playing WoW.

Some times I miss it, the game is actually great fun, but the amount of assholes is insurmountable. There’s just too many of them for someone to cope.
We tried everything: PuGging, joining guilds, trying to set up at least a 5-man group of acquaintances… nothing works against the general idea that you have to work like crazy, farm food, gold, every kind of resource, all for maybe one chance of getting one damn piece of gear, after a few grueling hours putting up with all kinds of harassment.

Also, to note, a guild with only one asshole isn’t the norm: usually, most players in the guild are only interested in picking political fights among each other and sucking up to the GL, who obliviously pats them in the head and lets them on with it, until they get bored and leave for a “better” guild.

Part of human behavior? Yeah, probably, but I sure can’t afford to spend 15 bucks a month on it. I see enough of that filth on my work environment, and I swear, I can’t imagine how that kind of atmosphere can be attractive enough to people for them to mimic it in their leisure time.

]]> By: amber http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/26/the-no-asshole-rule-constructing-a-civilized-guild/comment-page-1/#comment-23892 amber Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:48:37 +0000 http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/26/the-no-asshole-rule-constructing-a-civilized-guild/#comment-23892 I just want to say.......your right on. I wish there were less assholes in the world but its only getting worse. I just want to say…….your right on. I wish there were less assholes in the world but its only getting worse.

]]> By: Ardent Defender http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/26/the-no-asshole-rule-constructing-a-civilized-guild/comment-page-1/#comment-21690 Ardent Defender Sun, 19 Jul 2009 13:26:13 +0000 http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/26/the-no-asshole-rule-constructing-a-civilized-guild/#comment-21690 A guild asshole is like a cancer tumor. No one like having cancer, it will kill you eventually or by a slow painful death. Such is the case of a guild asshole. That individual as well will slowly kill your guild moral and loose members because of them over time. Over the long term they will infest your guild so much they may end up killing the entire guild. A guild asshole is a guild cancer turmor, treat or deal with that person before it's too late. When cancer has run it's course too long, your options become very limited. By then often it's too late as well. .-= Ardent Defender´s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ArdentDefender/~3/pf5gQ6HiuXE/blizzard-new-iphone-mobile-armory-app.html" rel="nofollow">Blizzard New IPhone Mobile Armory App</a> =-. A guild asshole is like a cancer tumor. No one like having cancer, it will kill you eventually or by a slow painful death. Such is the case of a guild asshole. That individual as well will slowly kill your guild moral and loose members because of them over time. Over the long term they will infest your guild so much they may end up killing the entire guild.

A guild asshole is a guild cancer turmor, treat or deal with that person before it’s too late. When cancer has run it’s course too long, your options become very limited. By then often it’s too late as well.
.-= Ardent Defender´s last blog ..Blizzard New IPhone Mobile Armory App =-.

]]> By: T-Sonn http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/26/the-no-asshole-rule-constructing-a-civilized-guild/comment-page-1/#comment-17756 T-Sonn Sat, 07 Feb 2009 12:10:41 +0000 http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/26/the-no-asshole-rule-constructing-a-civilized-guild/#comment-17756 Thank you so much for this, Matt. I've added the book to my Amazon cart and can't wait to settle down with it. Our guild of RL friends is so leery of assholes that we actually have a "no outsiders" member policy. One of us has to know the new person IRL in order for them to get a /ginvite. And while I don't turn many people away (no one seems to want to be in the uber-casual, non-raiding, just-here-to-socialize guild) I can't help but think there MUST be people out there who'd be fun to hang out with... if only we all weren't too scarred (that's not a typo) to try. <abbr><em>T-Sonns last blog post..<a href="http://meltedfaces.blogspot.com/2009/02/dual-spec-poll.html" rel="nofollow">Dual Spec Poll</a></abbr></em> Thank you so much for this, Matt. I’ve added the book to my Amazon cart and can’t wait to settle down with it.

Our guild of RL friends is so leery of assholes that we actually have a “no outsiders” member policy. One of us has to know the new person IRL in order for them to get a /ginvite. And while I don’t turn many people away (no one seems to want to be in the uber-casual, non-raiding, just-here-to-socialize guild) I can’t help but think there MUST be people out there who’d be fun to hang out with… if only we all weren’t too scarred (that’s not a typo) to try.

T-Sonns last blog post..Dual Spec Poll

]]> By: krizzlybear http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/26/the-no-asshole-rule-constructing-a-civilized-guild/comment-page-1/#comment-17618 krizzlybear Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:15:19 +0000 http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/26/the-no-asshole-rule-constructing-a-civilized-guild/#comment-17618 I have replied to this post, but due to your comment policy prohibiting the usage of excessive swearing, I'll simply redirect to my post over here. http://frostisthenewblack.wordpress.com/2009/02/03/team-america-theory/ <abbr><em>krizzlybears last blog post..<a href="http://frostisthenewblack.wordpress.com/2009/02/02/wednesday-is-the-new-monday/" rel="nofollow">Wednesday is the New Monday</A></abbr></em> I have replied to this post, but due to your comment policy prohibiting the usage of excessive swearing, I’ll simply redirect to my post over here.

http://frostisthenewblack.wordpress.com/2009/02/03/team-america-theory/

krizzlybears last blog post..Wednesday is the New Monday

]]> By: Team America Theory « Frost is the New Black http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/26/the-no-asshole-rule-constructing-a-civilized-guild/comment-page-1/#comment-17616 Team America Theory « Frost is the New Black Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:00:16 +0000 http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/26/the-no-asshole-rule-constructing-a-civilized-guild/#comment-17616 [...] this post is a bit of a response to Matticus’ “No Asshole Rule.”  Did you notice that his post says “no assholes,” but didn’t say [...] [...] this post is a bit of a response to Matticus’ “No Asshole Rule.”  Did you notice that his post says “no assholes,” but didn’t say [...]

]]> By: Stompalina http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/26/the-no-asshole-rule-constructing-a-civilized-guild/comment-page-1/#comment-17606 Stompalina Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:38:37 +0000 http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/26/the-no-asshole-rule-constructing-a-civilized-guild/#comment-17606 My comment turned into a blog post. lol www.rawrbitchrawr.com <abbr><em>Stompalinas last blog post..<a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Rawrbitchrawr/~3/530130698/dealing-with-challenges-learning-to.html" rel="nofollow">Dealing with Challenges: Learning to Keep my Trap Shut</a></abbr></em> My comment turned into a blog post. lol

http://www.rawrbitchrawr.com

Stompalinas last blog post..Dealing with Challenges: Learning to Keep my Trap Shut

]]> By: Lagniappe http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/26/the-no-asshole-rule-constructing-a-civilized-guild/comment-page-1/#comment-17532 Lagniappe Sat, 31 Jan 2009 07:35:40 +0000 http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/26/the-no-asshole-rule-constructing-a-civilized-guild/#comment-17532 I have personal experience with how one asshole can wreck a guild. In fact this one individual got us to transfer servers to escape him. A term that we came up with for this person was "fun vampire." It seemed that not only did he suck the fun right out of everything, but that he had to do this to survive. He was very high on the dps meters and thus felt that he could act however he wanted. He had a cadre of people who at first were not bad but seemed to become more asshole-ish as the time went on, and they saw the fun-vampire go completely unchecked. It created a very us-vs-them attitude within the guild, with the fun vampire and his ghouls picking on everyone else, and all the others just trying to run their raids and be left alone. In the end, we realized that this attitude wasn't going to go away and was pervasive in the leadership of the guild and several of us gquit. Thankfully we knew someone in Conquest and were able to transfer and join up with little hassle. I have personal experience with how one asshole can wreck a guild. In fact this one individual got us to transfer servers to escape him. A term that we came up with for this person was “fun vampire.” It seemed that not only did he suck the fun right out of everything, but that he had to do this to survive. He was very high on the dps meters and thus felt that he could act however he wanted. He had a cadre of people who at first were not bad but seemed to become more asshole-ish as the time went on, and they saw the fun-vampire go completely unchecked. It created a very us-vs-them attitude within the guild, with the fun vampire and his ghouls picking on everyone else, and all the others just trying to run their raids and be left alone.

In the end, we realized that this attitude wasn’t going to go away and was pervasive in the leadership of the guild and several of us gquit. Thankfully we knew someone in Conquest and were able to transfer and join up with little hassle.

]]> By: Casual Raid Leader » Noise Amplification: Tuning in to the Noise in Your Head http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/26/the-no-asshole-rule-constructing-a-civilized-guild/comment-page-1/#comment-17514 Casual Raid Leader » Noise Amplification: Tuning in to the Noise in Your Head Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:21:58 +0000 http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/26/the-no-asshole-rule-constructing-a-civilized-guild/#comment-17514 [...] What is Noise? Simply put, Noise is the stuff that hides the signal. Its the things that temporarily or permanently overwhelm the fun and make it into a grind or torture. Noise can take a lot of forms. For a raider, it could be a simple as one person who won’t shut up on Vent or refuses to use a flask and buffing food. For another person it could be that noob death knight who keeps purposely pulling and killing your mobs just to be an idiot. For others it can be that whispering nagging guy who abuses people in the guild. [...] [...] What is Noise? Simply put, Noise is the stuff that hides the signal. Its the things that temporarily or permanently overwhelm the fun and make it into a grind or torture. Noise can take a lot of forms. For a raider, it could be a simple as one person who won’t shut up on Vent or refuses to use a flask and buffing food. For another person it could be that noob death knight who keeps purposely pulling and killing your mobs just to be an idiot. For others it can be that whispering nagging guy who abuses people in the guild. [...]

]]> By: Gwaendar http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/26/the-no-asshole-rule-constructing-a-civilized-guild/comment-page-1/#comment-17430 Gwaendar Thu, 29 Jan 2009 01:04:46 +0000 http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/26/the-no-asshole-rule-constructing-a-civilized-guild/#comment-17430 Too many people misunderstand the point Sutton and Matticus make. Assholes, or bullies, no matter how skilled by themselves, affect group morale and create demotivation, insecurity and devolve collective gameplay, not to speak about higher member turnover, decrease in guild reputation and the ensuing increased difficulty in compensating for the turn-over. "Grow a thicker skin" nonwithstanding, a raiding group / guild has to improve as a collective. Fostering an environment where everyone is motivated to do their best, trust the others to do the same and to honestly seek to improve upon their mistakes will provide the best long term results. In terms of cost / benefits analysis, if your 10 men raid has 4 DPS at 5k each and one at 6k (total 26k), and the latter is being an asshole leading to one of the others to leave in exchange of an undergeared 4k player (new total 25k DPS), it's definitely worth considering whether the replacement of the asshole (new total 24k DPS) wouldn't be a better mid-to long term investment - first because after gearing the new player you'd be at 25k the second case too, but second because if the overall mood and motivation improves, all your 5 DPS may soon start emulating each other to reach 5.3k DPS, at which stage the raid as a whole has now a better output than in the other scenario and functions better as a team (and probably enjoys the game a lot more). There may be a lot more to gain in the longer term, to paraphrase Sutton, by removing any reason for your player to grow a thicker skin in the first place and letting them concentrate, instead, of getting better at their task. Dealing with bullying is a distraction at best. How many of the "deal with it" crowd put up with a new guild recruit who starts begging for gold immediately after getting a /ginvite? I recon none would. Same thing. Too many people misunderstand the point Sutton and Matticus make. Assholes, or bullies, no matter how skilled by themselves, affect group morale and create demotivation, insecurity and devolve collective gameplay, not to speak about higher member turnover, decrease in guild reputation and the ensuing increased difficulty in compensating for the turn-over.

“Grow a thicker skin” nonwithstanding, a raiding group / guild has to improve as a collective. Fostering an environment where everyone is motivated to do their best, trust the others to do the same and to honestly seek to improve upon their mistakes will provide the best long term results.

In terms of cost / benefits analysis, if your 10 men raid has 4 DPS at 5k each and one at 6k (total 26k), and the latter is being an asshole leading to one of the others to leave in exchange of an undergeared 4k player (new total 25k DPS), it’s definitely worth considering whether the replacement of the asshole (new total 24k DPS) wouldn’t be a better mid-to long term investment – first because after gearing the new player you’d be at 25k the second case too, but second because if the overall mood and motivation improves, all your 5 DPS may soon start emulating each other to reach 5.3k DPS, at which stage the raid as a whole has now a better output than in the other scenario and functions better as a team (and probably enjoys the game a lot more).

There may be a lot more to gain in the longer term, to paraphrase Sutton, by removing any reason for your player to grow a thicker skin in the first place and letting them concentrate, instead, of getting better at their task. Dealing with bullying is a distraction at best. How many of the “deal with it” crowd put up with a new guild recruit who starts begging for gold immediately after getting a /ginvite? I recon none would. Same thing.

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