@ Perrin, you are correct. That is why they did it, they even stated that publicly. And it is working, Blizz made it easier for people who can’t get into a good raiding guild to see end game content…. but shouldn’t that mean that the loot is also a bit inferior? Which it is, and while being flamed as “Elitist”, I hope the gear quality in 25 man’s continue to be better than 10 man loot.

Perzyxs last blog post..Proper Spec > Phat Loots

Blizzard has specifically chose to implement 10-mans of all 25 mans for the primary purpose of allowing those people who are unable to mount a 25 man raid or prefer to stay at the 10 man level, to experience the contest of power against Lore entities such as Arthas.

I can’t remember the exact stats but I think pre-3.0.2 something like only 1% of the WoW population had actually seen Illidan, whereas something like 70% had seen Melchazzar. Their aim in 10/25 split is to allow people to experience the game in an ‘epic’ sense, and personally I think they’ve succeeded if they continue their path. I agree there should be a difference in the mechanics and difficulty, but that’s no reason to drop it.

Also, some people don’t want to have to do 7 raids a week just to experience all the content, Blizzard knows that the *majority* of their players prefer 3 or less raids a week. And unlike the US Government, the Majority has more effect over Blizzard Policy than the Minority.

You also stated : “Of course, if the 10 man rewards were greater, the reaction from the hardcore-elitist contingent would be unbearable.”

I don’t think you are in a position to make judgements like that. If you have not done any of the 10 man and 25 man content, you lack the experience to make decisions like that and call people with opposite views as yours “elitists”. Let me guess… you reprimand others who don’t have the same views as you while you lack understanding and knowledge yourself…. you must be a teacher! Lol, per your blogsite you ARE a teacher! NOW it makes total sense.

I would make the conclusion from your conclusion that you based it of a sense you got playing in your guild instead of taking any of the mechanics of the game into consideration.

I really don’t know which way my opinion lies, clearly the experience is very different for different people – all dependent on the group that you run with I expect. I haven’t done Sarth except for a 25 all drakes down pug early in Wrath. Maly to me didn’t seem all that different between 10 and 25s except for the more people needing to no fail aspect.

Will be interesting to see if Blizz makes any adjustments. I think they need to do something… but I’m not sure what and not sure if I agree with what you suggest Syd. Do I sound like a fence sitter? On this subject I totally am right now

Jezraels last blog post..Epic flight – old skool style

This is not to say you should, but not doing 25s is a choice in one way or another. If you’re a small guild who is having trouble recruiting more before you get there, then you’re attempting to join that “elite” group anyway. If you’re a group of 10 who refuse to get more because you only want your small group of friends, then that’s just as elitist in its own way. Whining (and it is whining) that the 25 man content gives better loot is more of the “I want my cake and I want it now” attitude that society is leaning further toward. What’s wrong with taking the parameters of the environment presented, and playing by its rules. If 25s give better loot and you want that better loot, get 25. Don’t whine that it should be the same because the “entry-level tier” is not very well differentiated.

Those guilds who can put together and manage 25 people are doing it harder, not just in the actual requirements (Somone pointed out Thadd which is much harder on the enrage in 25s) but because running strategies with 25 people to progress a tier of dungeons is hard work.

In the current tier, the differences are minimal, but I don’t think this argument can really go much further till the next tier comes out and we see the real difference between 10 and 25s. As I said above, I expect it will be much more noticeable and properly tuned, instead of being a photocopy of a 40 man raid.

And remember, two’s company, three’s a crowd, ten’s a pack, twenty-five’s a herd of cats.

Sure, call it elitism, call it whatever you like. Personally I feel that the extra effort justifies the extra reward. IF 10 man content was truely more complicated and harder to pull off then it would change my feeling about the subject. i.e. Zul’ Aman was more dificult than Gruul’s therefore had better items (sans DST). But currently this isn’t the case. There is just in most bosses, less margin for error which is the OP’s basis for the post.

And I never said 25 man content is ONLY worth it because of the loot. My first post stated that 25 man content is the REASON I play this game. I think the larger group with a MUCH higher degree of dynamics is truely awesome. I love trying to max out our group composition and over time tweak our raid group into a machine. Having 25 people execute their roles on queue is a natural high. However, if they took the loot out of the equation, then 25 man raiding would fall apart at the seams. Even though I don’t raid solely because of the loot, but as in life you have to have rewards for the efforts you put in, otherwise people migrate to the easier routes.