Comments on: Discipline With Penance – How it Works http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/08/discipline-with-penance-how-it-works/ Practical advice for World of Warcraft healers and leaders Thu, 09 Feb 2012 07:13:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Inflam http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/08/discipline-with-penance-how-it-works/comment-page-1/#comment-14719 Inflam Fri, 09 Jan 2009 17:00:56 +0000 http://www.worldofmatticus.com/?p=3274#comment-14719 I am surprised to see so much emphasis place on HEALING in the Discipline spec when its role is mostly damage mitigation. Penance may not be the best or strongest heals but it provides three opportunities to proc one or more of your several buffs including grace, inspiration...ect. Combined with the five or six possible buffs that Penance can proc with one cast and the Glyph of PW:S (heals 10% of the damage it mitigates) you can easily mitigate more than you need to heal. If you are concerned about healing efficiencies in the Discipline spec, please read the former post about why Healing Meters Suck. Keep your PW:S and Penance just to keep up the buffs on your tank and don't worry about overhealing. Your tank will thank you for the lack of a repair bill after. Same is true with Holy Nova, not a good heal but cast 3 times and you can shield most of the people in your group with various shields and buffs. It is not all about pure healing. Let the pure healers worry about pure heals. Especially in 25mans, we mostly have to stop the bleeding. I am surprised to see so much emphasis place on HEALING in the Discipline spec when its role is mostly damage mitigation. Penance may not be the best or strongest heals but it provides three opportunities to proc one or more of your several buffs including grace, inspiration…ect. Combined with the five or six possible buffs that Penance can proc with one cast and the Glyph of PW:S (heals 10% of the damage it mitigates) you can easily mitigate more than you need to heal. If you are concerned about healing efficiencies in the Discipline spec, please read the former post about why Healing Meters Suck.
Keep your PW:S and Penance just to keep up the buffs on your tank and don’t worry about overhealing. Your tank will thank you for the lack of a repair bill after. Same is true with Holy Nova, not a good heal but cast 3 times and you can shield most of the people in your group with various shields and buffs. It is not all about pure healing. Let the pure healers worry about pure heals. Especially in 25mans, we mostly have to stop the bleeding.

]]> By: Ard http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/08/discipline-with-penance-how-it-works/comment-page-1/#comment-14703 Ard Fri, 09 Jan 2009 14:57:51 +0000 http://www.worldofmatticus.com/?p=3274#comment-14703 Let me get this straight: You're writing a post rebutting another post which advocates not using a Priest spell (Penance), while advocating not using another Priest spell (Shackle Undead). Hmm. Granted, Penance is a talent and potentially a key element of a Discipline build, but the irony still struck me. And then there's this: "It’s all about how you use the spell, not how much it heals or how efficient it is." It's not about how much the spell heals or how efficient it is? That's not even part of the equation? I don't think you really meant what you actually said. Let me get this straight: You’re writing a post rebutting another post which advocates not using a Priest spell (Penance), while advocating not using another Priest spell (Shackle Undead). Hmm. Granted, Penance is a talent and potentially a key element of a Discipline build, but the irony still struck me.

And then there’s this: “It’s all about how you use the spell, not how much it heals or how efficient it is.”

It’s not about how much the spell heals or how efficient it is? That’s not even part of the equation? I don’t think you really meant what you actually said.

]]> By: Solidfaith http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/08/discipline-with-penance-how-it-works/comment-page-1/#comment-14697 Solidfaith Fri, 09 Jan 2009 12:20:05 +0000 http://www.worldofmatticus.com/?p=3274#comment-14697 I use Holy Nova during the Loatheb fight. My tactic is to start casting Prayer of Healing so that it is cast just after the debuff wears off and then I immediately add Holy Nova. Sometimes it's over-heal and PoH already topped off my party but most times it adds that extra healing required to top them off, giving me complete peace of mind regarding them until the next healing window and letting me shield/renew the tank or other people with low life in the raid. I admit it's a very situational spell and not one I would use often due to the prohibitive mana cost but in places where it can be used it's a worthwhile addition and a perfect example of why priests are such masters of diverse healing tactics. As for Penance? Penance rulez, nuff said :) <abbr><em>Solidfaiths last blog post..<a href="http://solid-state.blogspot.com/2009/01/misc-small-updates.html" rel="nofollow">Misc. Small Updates</a></abbr></em> I use Holy Nova during the Loatheb fight. My tactic is to start casting Prayer of Healing so that it is cast just after the debuff wears off and then I immediately add Holy Nova. Sometimes it’s over-heal and PoH already topped off my party but most times it adds that extra healing required to top them off, giving me complete peace of mind regarding them until the next healing window and letting me shield/renew the tank or other people with low life in the raid.

I admit it’s a very situational spell and not one I would use often due to the prohibitive mana cost but in places where it can be used it’s a worthwhile addition and a perfect example of why priests are such masters of diverse healing tactics.

As for Penance? Penance rulez, nuff said :)

Solidfaiths last blog post..Misc. Small Updates

]]> By: Tih http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/08/discipline-with-penance-how-it-works/comment-page-1/#comment-14695 Tih Fri, 09 Jan 2009 10:26:00 +0000 http://www.worldofmatticus.com/?p=3274#comment-14695 Sorry, i forgot to add in my previous comment. Lovely article, enjoyed reading it. Sorry, i forgot to add in my previous comment. Lovely article, enjoyed reading it.

]]> By: Tih http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/08/discipline-with-penance-how-it-works/comment-page-1/#comment-14694 Tih Fri, 09 Jan 2009 10:18:43 +0000 http://www.worldofmatticus.com/?p=3274#comment-14694 I've been a holy priest ever since i hit 60, which was preTBC, and i've leveled as holy to 70, staying holy for the duration of TBC. Apart from a side experiment with discipline to test the power infusion talent, you can say i didn't have any expirience as a discipriest untill patch 3.0 came out. Then, just to try it again, i specced discipline and... i absolutely fell in love with Penance. It went as far as being reluctant to spec back to holy again, and i did love my holy spec... but as i am currently the only active healing priest in our guild, i realised that me being holy is a better thing for the guild in some situations, so now i'm back to holy. But i miss Penance. It is THE instant spell we can use to heal someone, and with proper gear it absolutely shines. Hitting your target with 2 or 3k heals three times in a row with an instant spell is very, very usefull. Agreed that Prayer of Mending is very good too as an instant heal, but Penance is just a lovely little thing to get you out of trouble. Mending you can't control, for example, as you have no idea where it will land once it jumps, especially if you have a lot of melee people in your group/raid. Is being discipline viable without taking Penance? It might be, but it certainly isn't using the full potential of that spec. Sure, you still have a load of nice things in your arsenal, like Divine Aegis, Rapture, hefty mana regen mechanics, shielding, flash heals, but from my expirience being discipline and not using Penance is far worse than being holy and not having the Guardian Spirit. But hey, nothing is set in stone, and the more one experiments with builds, the more one learns to play the class. I’ve been a holy priest ever since i hit 60, which was preTBC, and i’ve leveled as holy to 70, staying holy for the duration of TBC. Apart from a side experiment with discipline to test the power infusion talent, you can say i didn’t have any expirience as a discipriest untill patch 3.0 came out. Then, just to try it again, i specced discipline and… i absolutely fell in love with Penance.

It went as far as being reluctant to spec back to holy again, and i did love my holy spec… but as i am currently the only active healing priest in our guild, i realised that me being holy is a better thing for the guild in some situations, so now i’m back to holy.

But i miss Penance. It is THE instant spell we can use to heal someone, and with proper gear it absolutely shines. Hitting your target with 2 or 3k heals three times in a row with an instant spell is very, very usefull. Agreed that Prayer of Mending is very good too as an instant heal, but Penance is just a lovely little thing to get you out of trouble. Mending you can’t control, for example, as you have no idea where it will land once it jumps, especially if you have a lot of melee people in your group/raid.

Is being discipline viable without taking Penance? It might be, but it certainly isn’t using the full potential of that spec. Sure, you still have a load of nice things in your arsenal, like Divine Aegis, Rapture, hefty mana regen mechanics, shielding, flash heals, but from my expirience being discipline and not using Penance is far worse than being holy and not having the Guardian Spirit.

But hey, nothing is set in stone, and the more one experiments with builds, the more one learns to play the class.

]]> By: Pookie http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/08/discipline-with-penance-how-it-works/comment-page-1/#comment-14661 Pookie Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:09:43 +0000 http://www.worldofmatticus.com/?p=3274#comment-14661 Having just switch to disc (and being woefully undeargeared) I found Penance to be a wonderfully awesome spell in our Naxx 10 run last night. We were doing Grobbulous and I was giventhe job of healing the raid and debuffed players. Everytime the MT's healer got the debuff and had to run out I was there with a shield and Penance keeping up with the damage til they could get back. Can you be viable without Penance? I dunno not tried it, but to say its not efficient is silly. Our heals are situational, Prayer of Healing is great, but you wouldn't spam that wouldn't spam it if you are MT healing, would you? But for Loatheb? Prayer of Healing gets to shine! Its all about the situation you are in. <abbr><em>Pookies last blog post..<a href="http://leneliesvoice.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/priestly-gear/" rel="nofollow">Priestly Gear</a></abbr></em> Having just switch to disc (and being woefully undeargeared) I found Penance to be a wonderfully awesome spell in our Naxx 10 run last night. We were doing Grobbulous and I was giventhe job of healing the raid and debuffed players. Everytime the MT’s healer got the debuff and had to run out I was there with a shield and Penance keeping up with the damage til they could get back.

Can you be viable without Penance? I dunno not tried it, but to say its not efficient is silly. Our heals are situational, Prayer of Healing is great, but you wouldn’t spam that wouldn’t spam it if you are MT healing, would you? But for Loatheb? Prayer of Healing gets to shine! Its all about the situation you are in.

Pookies last blog post..Priestly Gear

]]> By: Chu http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/08/discipline-with-penance-how-it-works/comment-page-1/#comment-14652 Chu Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:51:56 +0000 http://www.worldofmatticus.com/?p=3274#comment-14652 While many readers agreed that the original post regarding a no penance disc build being viable wasn't quite substantiated through actual proof, I'd also argue that this response argument also lacks much explanation beyond personal beliefs on playstyles and descriptions of other talents. There are several points in this response article that I would disagree with: 1. Damage added as a healer, if you have the mana and gcds, will always help kill a boss faster. Several low healing fights in the current environment support healer dps. Absolute role adherence is a fallacy, IMO. 2. Shackle is helpful with Gluth. As with KT in emergency situations. Gluth is also a low healing fight where raid utility and supporting damage can help a great deal. 3. It is all about how you use the spell AND how much it heals AND how efficient it is. You wouldn't use rank 1 Heal on Patchwerk would you? There's a best time to use certain spells -because- of how much it heals and how efficient it is. I can't say that your article was easy to follow as it jumped from thought to thought, but kudos to you for putting out a counter post try to help alleviate some misconceptions. <abbr><em>Chus last blog post..<a href="http://startaruckus.blogspot.com/2009/01/fun-pvp-moments-in-bgs.html" rel="nofollow">Fun PvP moment in AV</a></abbr></em> While many readers agreed that the original post regarding a no penance disc build being viable wasn’t quite substantiated through actual proof, I’d also argue that this response argument also lacks much explanation beyond personal beliefs on playstyles and descriptions of other talents.

There are several points in this response article that I would disagree with:

1. Damage added as a healer, if you have the mana and gcds, will always help kill a boss faster. Several low healing fights in the current environment support healer dps. Absolute role adherence is a fallacy, IMO.

2. Shackle is helpful with Gluth. As with KT in emergency situations. Gluth is also a low healing fight where raid utility and supporting damage can help a great deal.

3. It is all about how you use the spell AND how much it heals AND how efficient it is. You wouldn’t use rank 1 Heal on Patchwerk would you? There’s a best time to use certain spells -because- of how much it heals and how efficient it is.

I can’t say that your article was easy to follow as it jumped from thought to thought, but kudos to you for putting out a counter post try to help alleviate some misconceptions.

Chus last blog post..Fun PvP moment in AV

]]> By: Daria http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/08/discipline-with-penance-how-it-works/comment-page-1/#comment-14651 Daria Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:49:21 +0000 http://www.worldofmatticus.com/?p=3274#comment-14651 I think the original poster's point about dispel was that you can cast it on both friendly and enemy targets, just like you can with Penance. So you could theoretically have an unfriendly targeted while using dispel, when you meant to dispel a friendly. The point is, any healer worth their salt is going to use something like Clique for dispelling, so the target is never an issue. The same is true of Penance, if you are having trouble with targeting, or if you did have to shackle, you can get around the issue via macros. When I'm healing a raid or group, I rarely have a mob targeted at all. And I've also noticed no shackling in WotLK, which is fine with me as I disliked having to worry about both healing and CC at the same time. I would strongly advise against anyone not picking up Penance. If you don't take it you might as well not take Grace either since you won't be using it to its full advantage. Penance has saved me (or rather the person I'm healing) so many times whenever there is a big damage spike you are scrambling to heal. <abbr><em>Darias last blog post..<a href="http://pixelsgaming.blogspot.com/2009/01/avoiding-burnout.html" rel="nofollow">Avoiding Burnout</a></abbr></em> I think the original poster’s point about dispel was that you can cast it on both friendly and enemy targets, just like you can with Penance. So you could theoretically have an unfriendly targeted while using dispel, when you meant to dispel a friendly.

The point is, any healer worth their salt is going to use something like Clique for dispelling, so the target is never an issue. The same is true of Penance, if you are having trouble with targeting, or if you did have to shackle, you can get around the issue via macros.
When I’m healing a raid or group, I rarely have a mob targeted at all. And I’ve also noticed no shackling in WotLK, which is fine with me as I disliked having to worry about both healing and CC at the same time.

I would strongly advise against anyone not picking up Penance. If you don’t take it you might as well not take Grace either since you won’t be using it to its full advantage.

Penance has saved me (or rather the person I’m healing) so many times whenever there is a big damage spike you are scrambling to heal.

Darias last blog post..Avoiding Burnout

]]> By: cwharton (Curtis Wharton) http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/01/08/discipline-with-penance-how-it-works/comment-page-1/#comment-14762 cwharton (Curtis Wharton) Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:32:37 +0000 http://www.worldofmatticus.com/?p=3274#comment-14762 http://is.gd/eTbY --- my guest post on mattycus' blog. Whee! http://is.gd/eTbY — my guest post on mattycus’ blog. Whee!

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