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	<title>Comments on: Unreasonable Expectations?</title>
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	<description>Where healers come first</description>
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		<title>By: Pookie</title>
		<link>http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/11/23/unreasonable-expectations/comment-page-1/#comment-13135</link>
		<dc:creator>Pookie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:27:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/11/23/unreasonable-expectations/#comment-13135</guid>
		<description>You know it all depends on the chatter. I raid with the Leftovers Raiding on Silverhand. There is banter in our LO channel and in our raid channel. But when its bosses its all business for the raids I&#039;m in. There has to be a balance, if you make raiding like work then you have missed the whole idea this being a game. 

Raids are generally tense situations and people need relief valves for that tension. You have to balance the focus on the raid with the reality that raiding is stressful; if you don&#039;t allow any relief from it while its happening you are creating a powder keg waiting to go off imo. 

Now if you are just refering to /1 general chat not say chat in general ;) then I can totally agree. 

I have to agree with Syd about scheduled AFKs. The charter (raid group) I run with does the same thing and it really makes it run smoother for us at the end of the day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know it all depends on the chatter. I raid with the Leftovers Raiding on Silverhand. There is banter in our LO channel and in our raid channel. But when its bosses its all business for the raids I&#8217;m in. There has to be a balance, if you make raiding like work then you have missed the whole idea this being a game. </p>
<p>Raids are generally tense situations and people need relief valves for that tension. You have to balance the focus on the raid with the reality that raiding is stressful; if you don&#8217;t allow any relief from it while its happening you are creating a powder keg waiting to go off imo. </p>
<p>Now if you are just refering to /1 general chat not say chat in general <img src='http://www.worldofmatticus.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  then I can totally agree. </p>
<p>I have to agree with Syd about scheduled AFKs. The charter (raid group) I run with does the same thing and it really makes it run smoother for us at the end of the day.</p>
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		<title>By: Boo</title>
		<link>http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/11/23/unreasonable-expectations/comment-page-1/#comment-13100</link>
		<dc:creator>Boo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 00:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/11/23/unreasonable-expectations/#comment-13100</guid>
		<description>Your rules on chatter, use of general, etc etc are ridiculous. Raiding should be a lot of fun. Not some highly regimented madness. In my guild cracking jokes in vent,  trash talking in /1, and other joking around is the norm. If you&#039;re raiding on a Friday or Saturday night late it&#039;s not uncommon for some trashed individual who just got back from a bar to stop in an bs with us a bit. If your raiders don&#039;t know when it&#039;s ok to chat and when they need to shut up and pay attention perhaps you need to find some better raiders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your rules on chatter, use of general, etc etc are ridiculous. Raiding should be a lot of fun. Not some highly regimented madness. In my guild cracking jokes in vent,  trash talking in /1, and other joking around is the norm. If you&#8217;re raiding on a Friday or Saturday night late it&#8217;s not uncommon for some trashed individual who just got back from a bar to stop in an bs with us a bit. If your raiders don&#8217;t know when it&#8217;s ok to chat and when they need to shut up and pay attention perhaps you need to find some better raiders.</p>
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		<title>By: Yggdrasil</title>
		<link>http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/11/23/unreasonable-expectations/comment-page-1/#comment-13091</link>
		<dc:creator>Yggdrasil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 18:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/11/23/unreasonable-expectations/#comment-13091</guid>
		<description>errr...nvm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>errr&#8230;nvm.</p>
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		<title>By: Yggdrasil</title>
		<link>http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/11/23/unreasonable-expectations/comment-page-1/#comment-13090</link>
		<dc:creator>Yggdrasil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 18:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/11/23/unreasonable-expectations/#comment-13090</guid>
		<description>@ Lheaf- I think the issue is 1 of distraction. He is saying only during raids. Sometimes players start bantering in an instance&#039;s general chat, and they don&#039;t realize that another pull has begun. Sometimes this is no biggie, but if, say, 50% of your healers are busy typing &quot;LAWL&quot; in the general chat, and the tank has just pulled something really big and nasty...you get the idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Lheaf- I think the issue is 1 of distraction. He is saying only during raids. Sometimes players start bantering in an instance&#8217;s general chat, and they don&#8217;t realize that another pull has begun. Sometimes this is no biggie, but if, say, 50% of your healers are busy typing &#8220;LAWL&#8221; in the general chat, and the tank has just pulled something really big and nasty&#8230;you get the idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Matticus</title>
		<link>http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/11/23/unreasonable-expectations/comment-page-1/#comment-13088</link>
		<dc:creator>Matticus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 18:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/11/23/unreasonable-expectations/#comment-13088</guid>
		<description>@Lheaf: Apologies. I don&#039;t think I was clear enough when I wrote that as it was under &quot;Raid Policy&quot;. I wanted to restrict general chat to 0 DURING RAIDS. I don&#039;t care what players do outside of that. The reason for this is that I found players to become distracted over crap that was said in [1 - Naxxramas] or other raid instance chat channels. This won&#039;t be strictly enforced I don&#039;t think. But if it does go out of hand, I&#039;ll have to do something about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Lheaf: Apologies. I don&#8217;t think I was clear enough when I wrote that as it was under &#8220;Raid Policy&#8221;. I wanted to restrict general chat to 0 DURING RAIDS. I don&#8217;t care what players do outside of that. The reason for this is that I found players to become distracted over crap that was said in [1 - Naxxramas] or other raid instance chat channels. This won&#8217;t be strictly enforced I don&#8217;t think. But if it does go out of hand, I&#8217;ll have to do something about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Lheaf</title>
		<link>http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/11/23/unreasonable-expectations/comment-page-1/#comment-13083</link>
		<dc:creator>Lheaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 17:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/11/23/unreasonable-expectations/#comment-13083</guid>
		<description>Wow @ general chat policy.  Screw that, imo.  Why not just a &quot;represent us well, or be prepared for consequences if a guildy or an officer or a class lead sees you making as a$$ of yourself and the guild you represent in any chat: general, realm heroic pug channel, LFG, trade, etc&quot;.

I found all your other regs reasonable and interesting (those I hadn&#039;t seen/considered before) but as a mature player who is helpful on gen chat and likes to be silly sometimes, and bond with others on the realm in those public chats, I&#039;d be insulted with that requirement.  I found a similar req regarding the realm wow forums *after* joining a raid guild, and quickly lost any enthusiasm for that raid guild. 

But good luck all the same on your raids!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow @ general chat policy.  Screw that, imo.  Why not just a &#8220;represent us well, or be prepared for consequences if a guildy or an officer or a class lead sees you making as a$$ of yourself and the guild you represent in any chat: general, realm heroic pug channel, LFG, trade, etc&#8221;.</p>
<p>I found all your other regs reasonable and interesting (those I hadn&#8217;t seen/considered before) but as a mature player who is helpful on gen chat and likes to be silly sometimes, and bond with others on the realm in those public chats, I&#8217;d be insulted with that requirement.  I found a similar req regarding the realm wow forums *after* joining a raid guild, and quickly lost any enthusiasm for that raid guild. </p>
<p>But good luck all the same on your raids!</p>
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		<title>By: Copra</title>
		<link>http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/11/23/unreasonable-expectations/comment-page-1/#comment-13078</link>
		<dc:creator>Copra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 07:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/11/23/unreasonable-expectations/#comment-13078</guid>
		<description>Great stuff, Matticus! I&#039;m taking bits and pieces and tweaking them to suit my own needs, as I launched my content driven casual guild over the weekend. These postings and the discussions have really helped to form the backbone of the operations with the corresponding philosophy.

I&#039;d say that there is no better way to deal with the rising issues than using your common sense. You can only describe the most relevant -and most annoying- issues in the policies and amend them later if need arises. The policies are to be changed, like the charter, when there is need to do so.

Copra

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Copras last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://bullcopra.blogspot.com/2008/11/holy-bg.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Holy BG!&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great stuff, Matticus! I&#8217;m taking bits and pieces and tweaking them to suit my own needs, as I launched my content driven casual guild over the weekend. These postings and the discussions have really helped to form the backbone of the operations with the corresponding philosophy.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say that there is no better way to deal with the rising issues than using your common sense. You can only describe the most relevant -and most annoying- issues in the policies and amend them later if need arises. The policies are to be changed, like the charter, when there is need to do so.</p>
<p>Copra</p>
<p><abbr><em>Copras last blog post..<a href="http://bullcopra.blogspot.com/2008/11/holy-bg.html" rel="nofollow">Holy BG!</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Imalinata</title>
		<link>http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/11/23/unreasonable-expectations/comment-page-1/#comment-13074</link>
		<dc:creator>Imalinata</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 22:21:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/11/23/unreasonable-expectations/#comment-13074</guid>
		<description>Regarding your greens/blues in raid policy:
Honestly, I&#039;d put into effect a blanket policy that only officers are to loot during raids aside from bosses where people will be getting badges.  The guild I&#039;m in does that now, all loot is free for all until the boss and only officers loot.  It makes it a lot faster and there are fewer people running around trying to loot their shinies and not focusing on the next trash pull etc.  Plus, we don&#039;t have to worry about someone forgetting and needing the green/blue/etc that should go to the guild bank.  The other guilds I&#039;ve been in in the past left it as group loot, and more time was spent being distracted and chasing the sparklies than paying attention to what was going on. 

Further to that, since you are a new guild without the ability to subsidize anything, don&#039;t promise to subsidize enchants.  IMO, enchants are something that players should be getting to make themselves the best they can be.  You don&#039;t want to hear the argument of &quot;I didn&#039;t get my enchant because no one was on to give me mats from guild bank.&quot;  Collect everything that drops and start getting into the habit of selling/DE-ing it and then after a while you can see if it&#039;s feasible to subsidize enchants or if it becomes more feasible to subsidize guild repairs.

Mind you, my guild that I&#039;m using for example, has been FFA loot by officers only since I joined 2+ years ago (and the guild is 3.5 years old) with our guild bank getting all the profits and we only just had raid repairs subsidized (50g per raid) when we were in Sunwell and progressing (tanks were subsidized earlier due to their much higher repair costs) because we didn&#039;t want to promise anything and then not be able to follow through.  

Regarding AFKs:
Our guild has the policy that we notify the raid leader that we need to go AFK and he would then organize who could go and when to make sure that the raid had adequate dps/healers/tanks.  Personally, I think that it would just be better if people knew that at such-and-such time we were breaking for x minutes.  However, I think either way you do it, you will end up with people who say they&#039;ll be gone for only 2 minutes but won&#039;t come back for 5-10 and you&#039;ll have the same thing happen if you have scheduled breaks; it just depends on which you prefer to manage.

You don&#039;t mention your loot system here.  I don&#039;t recall if you&#039;ve posted about it already, or if you haven&#039;t set one up yet, but this would be the place to put it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding your greens/blues in raid policy:<br />
Honestly, I&#8217;d put into effect a blanket policy that only officers are to loot during raids aside from bosses where people will be getting badges.  The guild I&#8217;m in does that now, all loot is free for all until the boss and only officers loot.  It makes it a lot faster and there are fewer people running around trying to loot their shinies and not focusing on the next trash pull etc.  Plus, we don&#8217;t have to worry about someone forgetting and needing the green/blue/etc that should go to the guild bank.  The other guilds I&#8217;ve been in in the past left it as group loot, and more time was spent being distracted and chasing the sparklies than paying attention to what was going on. </p>
<p>Further to that, since you are a new guild without the ability to subsidize anything, don&#8217;t promise to subsidize enchants.  IMO, enchants are something that players should be getting to make themselves the best they can be.  You don&#8217;t want to hear the argument of &#8220;I didn&#8217;t get my enchant because no one was on to give me mats from guild bank.&#8221;  Collect everything that drops and start getting into the habit of selling/DE-ing it and then after a while you can see if it&#8217;s feasible to subsidize enchants or if it becomes more feasible to subsidize guild repairs.</p>
<p>Mind you, my guild that I&#8217;m using for example, has been FFA loot by officers only since I joined 2+ years ago (and the guild is 3.5 years old) with our guild bank getting all the profits and we only just had raid repairs subsidized (50g per raid) when we were in Sunwell and progressing (tanks were subsidized earlier due to their much higher repair costs) because we didn&#8217;t want to promise anything and then not be able to follow through.  </p>
<p>Regarding AFKs:<br />
Our guild has the policy that we notify the raid leader that we need to go AFK and he would then organize who could go and when to make sure that the raid had adequate dps/healers/tanks.  Personally, I think that it would just be better if people knew that at such-and-such time we were breaking for x minutes.  However, I think either way you do it, you will end up with people who say they&#8217;ll be gone for only 2 minutes but won&#8217;t come back for 5-10 and you&#8217;ll have the same thing happen if you have scheduled breaks; it just depends on which you prefer to manage.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t mention your loot system here.  I don&#8217;t recall if you&#8217;ve posted about it already, or if you haven&#8217;t set one up yet, but this would be the place to put it.</p>
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		<title>By: drug</title>
		<link>http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/11/23/unreasonable-expectations/comment-page-1/#comment-13073</link>
		<dc:creator>drug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:13:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/11/23/unreasonable-expectations/#comment-13073</guid>
		<description>I think good discipline while raiding helps a lot. On the other hand discipline helps nothing when the guild is steering in the wrong direction.

The first guild I was in I learned everything about discipline. Officer worked with -dkp a lot. Chatter in teamspeak was kept on a minimum. Not being on time was a crime. We then wiped on Archimonde for a whole month and the guild broke up over it.

With the guild I&#039;m in right now I got to kill Illidan pre 3.0.2 but the overall feeling during raid is much much more casual (which annoyed me in the beginning). There&#039;s a lot of chatter, there&#039;s too much afk going and too many ppl show up too late. BUT clearing trash is insanely fast and most guildies learn boss encounters quick.

I agree with all points in the original post, just wanted to mention how guild dynamics sometimes work.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;drugs last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.shieldsup.ch/2008/11/23/omgbaby-polar-bear/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;OMGÃ¢â‚¬Â¦Baby Polar Bear!&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think good discipline while raiding helps a lot. On the other hand discipline helps nothing when the guild is steering in the wrong direction.</p>
<p>The first guild I was in I learned everything about discipline. Officer worked with -dkp a lot. Chatter in teamspeak was kept on a minimum. Not being on time was a crime. We then wiped on Archimonde for a whole month and the guild broke up over it.</p>
<p>With the guild I&#8217;m in right now I got to kill Illidan pre 3.0.2 but the overall feeling during raid is much much more casual (which annoyed me in the beginning). There&#8217;s a lot of chatter, there&#8217;s too much afk going and too many ppl show up too late. BUT clearing trash is insanely fast and most guildies learn boss encounters quick.</p>
<p>I agree with all points in the original post, just wanted to mention how guild dynamics sometimes work.</p>
<p><abbr><em>drugs last blog post..<a href="http://www.shieldsup.ch/2008/11/23/omgbaby-polar-bear/" rel="nofollow">OMGÃ¢â‚¬Â¦Baby Polar Bear!</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Revaan</title>
		<link>http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/11/23/unreasonable-expectations/comment-page-1/#comment-13072</link>
		<dc:creator>Revaan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 15:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/11/23/unreasonable-expectations/#comment-13072</guid>
		<description>As far as your suggesting new strategies policy, your raid leader may be busy enough with whispers and organizing everyone in the raid. Perhaps having people give suggestions or feedback to any sort of class/role leads either via whispers or group-specific channels and then those leads can pass it up. This keeps your raid lead dealing with a more limited set of tells rather than getting bombarded by every raider and their vanity pet.

Also, about the subbing policy, if you need to sub people in/out of the raid, do you do it during the trash leading up to the boss, or on the boss itself? Also, after the boss is dead, does the new group stay in, do you sub back to the original group, or does the raid leader make that call based on the next boss? Likewise, how will subbing work? Will any eventual mage that you&#039;re bound to get port them to Dalaran where they&#039;ll fly back to the instance, or do they just run all the way back out while the incoming players sit around outside waiting? How much notice will sub-in players get that they&#039;re coming up so they can be outside the instance ready, or will they just have to be waiting outside for the entire raid?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as your suggesting new strategies policy, your raid leader may be busy enough with whispers and organizing everyone in the raid. Perhaps having people give suggestions or feedback to any sort of class/role leads either via whispers or group-specific channels and then those leads can pass it up. This keeps your raid lead dealing with a more limited set of tells rather than getting bombarded by every raider and their vanity pet.</p>
<p>Also, about the subbing policy, if you need to sub people in/out of the raid, do you do it during the trash leading up to the boss, or on the boss itself? Also, after the boss is dead, does the new group stay in, do you sub back to the original group, or does the raid leader make that call based on the next boss? Likewise, how will subbing work? Will any eventual mage that you&#8217;re bound to get port them to Dalaran where they&#8217;ll fly back to the instance, or do they just run all the way back out while the incoming players sit around outside waiting? How much notice will sub-in players get that they&#8217;re coming up so they can be outside the instance ready, or will they just have to be waiting outside for the entire raid?</p>
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