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	<title>Comments on: GM&#8217;s: Do You Give Second Chances?</title>
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	<link>http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/04/10/gms-do-you-give-second-chances/</link>
	<description>Practical advice for World of Warcraft healers and leaders</description>
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		<title>By: Revaan</title>
		<link>http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/04/10/gms-do-you-give-second-chances/comment-page-1/#comment-8464</link>
		<dc:creator>Revaan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 01:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/04/10/gms-do-you-give-second-chances/#comment-8464</guid>
		<description>I would withold any decision and tell him straight up that you won&#039;t consider taking him back until he tells you why he left and why he didn&#039;t tell anyone. Make it clear that he will not be accepted unless you feel confident that you understand well enough for WoW work why he left with no notice, and isn&#039;t likely to happen again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would withold any decision and tell him straight up that you won&#8217;t consider taking him back until he tells you why he left and why he didn&#8217;t tell anyone. Make it clear that he will not be accepted unless you feel confident that you understand well enough for WoW work why he left with no notice, and isn&#8217;t likely to happen again.</p>
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		<title>By: Alyse</title>
		<link>http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/04/10/gms-do-you-give-second-chances/comment-page-1/#comment-8408</link>
		<dc:creator>Alyse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/04/10/gms-do-you-give-second-chances/#comment-8408</guid>
		<description>Mmmm Maybe if you allowed him back in the guild with probation? But It&#039;s always a tough call, considering there is no trust for that player from the majority of the guild (I&#039;m guessing). I think you need to decide if the chances of him leaving again out weigh him being in the guild</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mmmm Maybe if you allowed him back in the guild with probation? But It&#8217;s always a tough call, considering there is no trust for that player from the majority of the guild (I&#8217;m guessing). I think you need to decide if the chances of him leaving again out weigh him being in the guild</p>
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		<title>By: Amandine</title>
		<link>http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/04/10/gms-do-you-give-second-chances/comment-page-1/#comment-8381</link>
		<dc:creator>Amandine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:52:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/04/10/gms-do-you-give-second-chances/#comment-8381</guid>
		<description>This wasn&#039;t in a guild but in another social club, but I got very depressed, had a major responsibility I failed in fulfilling which meant other poeple&#039;s work had gone to naught and affected the name of my club for a while-- because I couldn&#039;t face walking away from the club.  Sometimes leaving is better for the club/guild asa whole for a while until you getyourself back to yourself again.

Now I don&#039;t know why your person left the guild, but I&#039;d take a look at those reasons and look atif there&#039;s realistically a spot in the guild for him, and if circumstances a likely to recur.  One can&#039;t predict the future...

I&#039;d epxlain to him that he&#039;s starting at the bottom and needs ot earn his way back into trust.

I know that&#039;s what I expect from my club... and hope for...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This wasn&#8217;t in a guild but in another social club, but I got very depressed, had a major responsibility I failed in fulfilling which meant other poeple&#8217;s work had gone to naught and affected the name of my club for a while&#8211; because I couldn&#8217;t face walking away from the club.  Sometimes leaving is better for the club/guild asa whole for a while until you getyourself back to yourself again.</p>
<p>Now I don&#8217;t know why your person left the guild, but I&#8217;d take a look at those reasons and look atif there&#8217;s realistically a spot in the guild for him, and if circumstances a likely to recur.  One can&#8217;t predict the future&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d epxlain to him that he&#8217;s starting at the bottom and needs ot earn his way back into trust.</p>
<p>I know that&#8217;s what I expect from my club&#8230; and hope for&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Matticus!</title>
		<link>http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/04/10/gms-do-you-give-second-chances/comment-page-1/#comment-8352</link>
		<dc:creator>Matticus!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 19:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/04/10/gms-do-you-give-second-chances/#comment-8352</guid>
		<description>Glad to see all this excellent discussion going on! 

Kwane: Way to build up on my analogy. I&#039;ll keep what you&#039;ve said in mind. 

It certainly appears that second chances will be granted. But the odds of the third chance are next to nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad to see all this excellent discussion going on! </p>
<p>Kwane: Way to build up on my analogy. I&#8217;ll keep what you&#8217;ve said in mind. </p>
<p>It certainly appears that second chances will be granted. But the odds of the third chance are next to nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: Kal</title>
		<link>http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/04/10/gms-do-you-give-second-chances/comment-page-1/#comment-8349</link>
		<dc:creator>Kal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:45:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/04/10/gms-do-you-give-second-chances/#comment-8349</guid>
		<description>Not everyone deserves a second chance. Honestly, a lot of people didn&#039;t deserve their first chance. 

If they left without a reason, that&#039;s not good - but at the same time, as long as they did no harm to you (IE, getting the T5 chest and then leaving) I don&#039;t see why welcoming them back isn&#039;t a possibility. I would want to have some notion of why they left, why they&#039;re returning and how y&#039;all could avoid the situation in the future that made him leave without explanation, but all of these things have reasonable possibilities.

Mostly, I&#039;d ask this: was he a good player? Was he a good fit for the group? If the answers are yes, chances are he&#039;ll be okay to come back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not everyone deserves a second chance. Honestly, a lot of people didn&#8217;t deserve their first chance. </p>
<p>If they left without a reason, that&#8217;s not good &#8211; but at the same time, as long as they did no harm to you (IE, getting the T5 chest and then leaving) I don&#8217;t see why welcoming them back isn&#8217;t a possibility. I would want to have some notion of why they left, why they&#8217;re returning and how y&#8217;all could avoid the situation in the future that made him leave without explanation, but all of these things have reasonable possibilities.</p>
<p>Mostly, I&#8217;d ask this: was he a good player? Was he a good fit for the group? If the answers are yes, chances are he&#8217;ll be okay to come back.</p>
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		<title>By: Rhoelyn</title>
		<link>http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/04/10/gms-do-you-give-second-chances/comment-page-1/#comment-8348</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhoelyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:21:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/04/10/gms-do-you-give-second-chances/#comment-8348</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s really tough to answer these kinds of things in a black-and-white way. Personally, for the vast majority of people I know, there are no second chances with me. I don&#039;t trust easily or lightly, and a guildie breaking my trust to run off will always be stained in my eyes. 

In general. 

But there are a few people who I might be able to forgive, some extenuating circumstances that I might be able to accept. Just... not very many, and certainly not more than once. 

I could possibly give a second chance if I were GM, but they&#039;d sure as hell never get a third.

RAWR,
~Rhoe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s really tough to answer these kinds of things in a black-and-white way. Personally, for the vast majority of people I know, there are no second chances with me. I don&#8217;t trust easily or lightly, and a guildie breaking my trust to run off will always be stained in my eyes. </p>
<p>In general. </p>
<p>But there are a few people who I might be able to forgive, some extenuating circumstances that I might be able to accept. Just&#8230; not very many, and certainly not more than once. </p>
<p>I could possibly give a second chance if I were GM, but they&#8217;d sure as hell never get a third.</p>
<p>RAWR,<br />
~Rhoe</p>
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		<title>By: Merlot</title>
		<link>http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/04/10/gms-do-you-give-second-chances/comment-page-1/#comment-8347</link>
		<dc:creator>Merlot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 13:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/04/10/gms-do-you-give-second-chances/#comment-8347</guid>
		<description>Our guild allows for second chances, depending on the circumstances of the original departure, but no third chances. One guy recently left to join a more progressed raiding guild but came back within a week. He realised the grass isn&#039;t always greener. But the emotional yo-yos who /gquit in a sulk are not welcome, and the two-strike rule helps to weed them out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our guild allows for second chances, depending on the circumstances of the original departure, but no third chances. One guy recently left to join a more progressed raiding guild but came back within a week. He realised the grass isn&#8217;t always greener. But the emotional yo-yos who /gquit in a sulk are not welcome, and the two-strike rule helps to weed them out.</p>
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		<title>By: Yashima</title>
		<link>http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/04/10/gms-do-you-give-second-chances/comment-page-1/#comment-8346</link>
		<dc:creator>Yashima</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/04/10/gms-do-you-give-second-chances/#comment-8346</guid>
		<description>Well we took a rules from another guild which basically goes like this &quot;everbody is allowed to fuck up once&quot;. So you get a second chance. 

People who manage to leave in peace and gracefully have been accepted back. 

We even have at least one member who has been accepted back several times. His situation with us is way too complicated though to discuss here.

People who re-apply need to tell us why things have changed. Why come back now ... and they must pass the whole application process again.

So far we have a few ex-members I am sure we will not be taking in again. In the end however, we are deciding such things as guild and if the guild says yes we do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well we took a rules from another guild which basically goes like this &#8220;everbody is allowed to fuck up once&#8221;. So you get a second chance. </p>
<p>People who manage to leave in peace and gracefully have been accepted back. </p>
<p>We even have at least one member who has been accepted back several times. His situation with us is way too complicated though to discuss here.</p>
<p>People who re-apply need to tell us why things have changed. Why come back now &#8230; and they must pass the whole application process again.</p>
<p>So far we have a few ex-members I am sure we will not be taking in again. In the end however, we are deciding such things as guild and if the guild says yes we do it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kwane</title>
		<link>http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/04/10/gms-do-you-give-second-chances/comment-page-1/#comment-8345</link>
		<dc:creator>Kwane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 05:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/04/10/gms-do-you-give-second-chances/#comment-8345</guid>
		<description>Matticus, long time reader first time responder but I hope to make a habit of it in the time to come just to be more active in the blog-o-sphere (read Ego makes me :D )

First let me say regarding yesterdays post, you have to have the raw wood steps first. And I find that allowing others to see those raw wood steps gets you moving farther along faster than if you keep them to yourself. It sort of forces you to see them as raw wood rather then being quitely satisfied.

Now, as to second chances. I am a huge proponent of the truth, and people telling it. And while &quot;Everyone deserves a second chance, right?&quot; sounds awesome, its honestly not always true and I think you actually list the perfect example under the &quot;Arguments against&quot; header with the warlock leaving after getting his item from Vashj. If said player took his leave without a) notifying the leadership that it was happening in some advance time and b) simply gave no notice as to why at all, then no I would likely never give this person another chance.

Common courtesy and discretion are some qualities that, being removed from one another by the game itself seems to cause the majority of the players to ignore, I really feel we as people should always strive to uphold.

(Wow, did that turn into something of a late night tirade? Sorry if so.)

Sincerely, Kwane.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matticus, long time reader first time responder but I hope to make a habit of it in the time to come just to be more active in the blog-o-sphere (read Ego makes me <img src='http://www.worldofmatticus.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />  )</p>
<p>First let me say regarding yesterdays post, you have to have the raw wood steps first. And I find that allowing others to see those raw wood steps gets you moving farther along faster than if you keep them to yourself. It sort of forces you to see them as raw wood rather then being quitely satisfied.</p>
<p>Now, as to second chances. I am a huge proponent of the truth, and people telling it. And while &#8220;Everyone deserves a second chance, right?&#8221; sounds awesome, its honestly not always true and I think you actually list the perfect example under the &#8220;Arguments against&#8221; header with the warlock leaving after getting his item from Vashj. If said player took his leave without a) notifying the leadership that it was happening in some advance time and b) simply gave no notice as to why at all, then no I would likely never give this person another chance.</p>
<p>Common courtesy and discretion are some qualities that, being removed from one another by the game itself seems to cause the majority of the players to ignore, I really feel we as people should always strive to uphold.</p>
<p>(Wow, did that turn into something of a late night tirade? Sorry if so.)</p>
<p>Sincerely, Kwane.</p>
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		<title>By: Siha</title>
		<link>http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/04/10/gms-do-you-give-second-chances/comment-page-1/#comment-8344</link>
		<dc:creator>Siha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 04:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2008/04/10/gms-do-you-give-second-chances/#comment-8344</guid>
		<description>I usually give second chances, but I don&#039;t give thirds. 

That said, our guild policies say &quot;/gquit is a decision, not a way to make a point&quot; and that we&#039;ll consider people asking to rejoin on a  case-by-case basis. Some have been allowed, others disallowed, and it&#039;s really based on me and the officers considering why the person left, was it reasonable for them to leave, will they fit back in okay in the guild as it stands now, and are they likely to &#039;reoffend&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I usually give second chances, but I don&#8217;t give thirds. </p>
<p>That said, our guild policies say &#8220;/gquit is a decision, not a way to make a point&#8221; and that we&#8217;ll consider people asking to rejoin on a  case-by-case basis. Some have been allowed, others disallowed, and it&#8217;s really based on me and the officers considering why the person left, was it reasonable for them to leave, will they fit back in okay in the guild as it stands now, and are they likely to &#8216;reoffend&#8217;.</p>
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