Minimum Class Stat Requirements for Zul’Aman

96 Responses to “Minimum Class Stat Requirements for Zul’Aman”

1. Gwaendar on January 11th, 2008 4:02 pm

   Just two remarks from my (limited) PoV:
   - Tankadins who are uncrushable have 102.4% block + parry + doge + miss anyway
   - The figure of 17′000 HP for a tankadin appears a bit surrealisticly high. If as advertised a raid who has Kara on farm can move to ZA, I doubt you can get this with Kara gear, at least not unbuffed.
   This is just hearsay from my side though.

2. Matticus! on January 11th, 2008 6:28 pm

   I’m assuming Kara gear plus miscellaneous badge gear. Also note that these numbers are after being buffed.

3. Doc Holiday on January 11th, 2008 11:41 pm

   My prot pally has Kara,Badge,Gruul shoulders and has reached 20.3K health raid buffed. Mind you thats with all health buffs fort,MOTW,Flask of Fort, Stamina food,Warlock imp and Commanding shout.

   Just tonight I was at 18.3k health with Fort,MOTW, Flask and Food

4. Mera on January 12th, 2008 9:51 am

   I’m really not sure where priests pull their ideas for resto druids from.

   9k health cos they cant run as fast. Shouldn’t a priest (say) have 9k health, cos cloth is soft, on that basis?
   I will get one shotted if i have my 7k health, or the 9k that you advertise. Also, I find druids have higher mp/5 while casting vs priests… not sure though. Still, in a mix of kara epics, one pvp piece, T4 gloves n helm, and some blues + 1 green trinket, I easily meet your regen requiremetns, even though im on 1250 healing.

   Also, your general numbers on health seem 10-20% higher than is realistic, for melee DPS, mages and hunters. 11k health for a fury warrior? seems a little off to me.

   Id also be impressed if a duel wielding enhancement shaman could get hit capped on badges and kara gear alone. Same with rogues. Do you know how much they need to be hit capped? Its something like 29% i believe, maybe 25%. That said, they should at least have 9% (rogues enhance and fury warriors, so yellows dont miss).

   Finally “in my experience, when druids get hit, they get hit hard”. Stop and think for one second. Druids are gonna be the only tanks who are gonna be armour capped from kara gear and badges. THerefore, when they get hit, its not gonna be nearly as much as a warrior or paladin gets hit for.

5. Matticus! on January 12th, 2008 11:22 am

   Mera: First, let’s not generalize that all Priests think the same. I came up with this list, I should be slammed not Priests (unless you happen to run into Priests that think on the same scale as I do) =).

   Second, yes you meet the mana regen requirements. But you don’t meet the healing requirements. Would you suggest a lowering of healing or a raise in mana regen? Just because one aspect is fulfilled and not the other doesn’t mean you’d still be qualified to go in there. There’s got to be a certain amount of healing. I think 1500 is a good baseline number.

   Third, as for health and stats and the like, I’ve said before I don’t play DPS classes. The numbers that I’ve pulled these off of are educated guesses at worse and actual observations at best. I don’t know what their baselines are. All I have to work from is what I’ve seen and what I get in response when I ask players. I guess hit capped would be the most ideal but I’ll correct the melee as you’ve suggested and drop it to a more easily achievable number.

   Lastly, on Druid tanks that I’ve healed through on Zul’Aman, again this is from experience. I don’t know why they eat a ton of damage but they just do. Maybe I party with bad druids or something. But again, I’ll lower their health a little bit.

   This isn’t just aimed at you, Mera, but to everyone else that wants to help. I value the criticism, but it’s not enough to say “this is wrong”. I’d like to see a “this is wrong, and here’s what I would do”. Thanks for your 2 cents =)

6. Trollin' on January 12th, 2008 2:09 pm

   Note: All caster dps should be hit capped for their spec. (Meaning Afflic locks should have at least 76, but should continue stacking it)

7. Karthis on January 13th, 2008 11:05 am

   Druid tanks:

   32k armor
   40% dodge is fine.

8. Bendyr on January 14th, 2008 10:24 am

   This list is a nice start, but some of these numbers are too general. For example, it’s completely possible for a subtlety rogue to hit 1900 AP and have worse dps than a combat rogue with 1700 AP. I would just say that dps classes need a certain DPS minimum, and be able to sustain it for a certain period of time.

9. Argonaut on January 14th, 2008 12:46 pm

   As a druid tank who’s just cleared Gruul’s (with zero Gruul gear), as a Main Tank on HKM and an Off Tank on Gruul, as well as beginning to run ZA, My stats are as follows:
   HP: ~22.5k (Raid Buffed)
   Dode: 40%
   Armor: 30k

   Yet to begin raiding SSC or TK, but our group does run with some really well geared folks, so we arent having a problem with the initial bosses e.g Downing Narlokk on second attempt ever. Just thought I’d let you know since you asked.

10. geerock on January 14th, 2008 5:20 pm

    In regards as to why Druids get smacked so hard? Even with the massive amount of armour they can pull off and being Crit immune with ease, they are still sibject to the Crushing Blows which hurt… a lot.

    Sure your druid buffed has a 65% dodge rate, combinedwith the base 5% chance of a mob missing, that’s 70% avoidance. 15% chance of a Crushing blow means that there is a 50% chance that any hit on your little bear friend is going to SUCK!

11. Arduanne on January 15th, 2008 6:15 am

    I would bump the pally +healing and mana pool just a bit higher. I know with Kara gear (and starting to fill out with badge gear) I’m easily hitting 1750 healing and about 120mp5 with 14,000 mana raid buffed.

12. Matticus! on January 15th, 2008 9:32 am

    Great feedback from everyone, thank you! I’ve added armor numbers for druids and raised the mana pool and healing for Paladins a little bit higher.

13. Beauregard on January 15th, 2008 11:20 am

    I had a couple thoughts/suggestions:

    A pally tank needs to reach uncrushable, which means a total block/parry/dodge of over 102% while Holy Shield is active. I would recommend getting at least 6k mana buffed as well, mostly for trash mobs. You get heals enough to keep your mana up for bosses, but on trash, particularly the gauntlet, the extra mana really helps. I’m wearing almost entirely Kara and Heroic Badge gear, and I have about the following when raid buffed, so I know they are all reachable pre-ZA:

    Health: 17000 (18k with imp in group, 19k with commanding shout)
    Mana: 6300
    Block/Parry/Dodge: 110% with Holy Shield active
    Spell damage: 288 (and I still have the KoT spell damage sword. I would recommend doing some arenas and grabbing the season 2 spell damage mace if possible, which would put it well over 300)

14. Jalis on January 15th, 2008 12:16 pm

    2 notes on hunters:

    7500 mana seems a little high. I have Kara/Badge gear and run with around ~6600 mana raid buffed. I have no mana problems as long as I have mana pots with me.

    And saying “You better be BM.” is just BS.

15. Beauregard on January 15th, 2008 4:37 pm

    /agree with Jalis. BM hunters have better burst damage to be sure, but MM and survival both have much better sustainable DPS. My hunter has mostly Kara gear, and I DPS on him when I’m not tanking on my pally. Currently he has:

    9623 hp unbuffed
    6900 mana unbuffed
    Over 2k AP totally unbuffed (no self-buffs, food, flask, etc), and I can push really close to 3k with raid buffs
    Over 22% crit unbuffed
    340 base unbuffed DPS
    120 base unbuffed pet DPS

    Hope some of that helps you put in a baseline for hunters, though each spec really has wildly differing stats. MM is the AP hog though, since you get an agi, int, and AP buff through talents, plus you get AP for your int as well. A BM or Surv hunter couldn’t really be expected to have the same kind of AP as MM. Survival hunters wind up with really high crit ratings more often, and BM hunters get the attack speed increase, and more pet damage, though their AP is lower.

    You may want to think about trying to figure it out in terms of ‘Base DPS’ for Hunters and Rogues. They are the two hardest classes (in my opinion) to benchmark. Everything (benchmark-wise) for other classes is built into the class functionality (healers need +healing, damage casters need +damage), but hunters’ and rogues’ talent sets mean totally different gear/stat choices. Maybe offer a couple benchmarks like:
    You need X-AP if you have 20%-crit, OR Y-AP if you have 30%-crit, etc.

    After all that, I just want to say nice job on the blog so far! Hope some of this might help you out. =D

16. Matticus! on January 15th, 2008 5:06 pm

    Jalis, Beauregard: Break it up for me. *All* the hunters I know are BM spec. What numbers would the two of you suggest for an MM and a BM? I’ll split up that category accordingly.

    And thanks, it’s all appreciated =).

17. Jalis on January 15th, 2008 5:30 pm

    For a survival spec, I run raid buffed with

    Health: ~9500+
    Mana: 6500 mana
    AP: 2400
    Hit: Capped
    Crit: 44%
    Agility: 1000

18. Matticus! on January 16th, 2008 1:12 am

    Jalis: The numbers between yourself and Beauregard seem approximately the same with the exception of crit. I’m not sure what the agility of BM or MM is supposed to be but I’ve reflected it accordingly above!

    Thanks guys =)

19. Mathieu on January 17th, 2008 6:15 am

    Raid buffed my BM hunter runs with 10k health, 6.8k mana, 2k AP, around 27% crit, and 600-ish agility, while maintaining hit cap. WWS reports put my dps between 900 and 1100. Of course, all of this very much depends on the raid setup.

20. Noonshade on January 17th, 2008 6:29 am

    Why did you choose for raid buffed stats btw?
    I would have prefered seeing unbuffed numbers since especially in a 10 man group it isn’t always as likely to have all buffs going.

    Am a recently converted resto druid gone feral (since my guild was running lower on tanks than it was on healers at the time) and stumbled on this thread through Karthis’ T&C blog.

    Which leads me to another question, some of the numbers seem to be even quite on the high side (specificly feral druid numbers) for a team of kara-geared adventurers, while other numbers are quite obtainable even unbuffed (my alt shadowpriest for instance)… how did you get to them? Did you take a specific baseline or just checked in your own “standard ZA-team” for ideas?

21. Chimba on January 17th, 2008 7:53 am

    For an Enhancement Shaman coming out of Kara with BOJ gear, you should have around 1200 AP, 100 hit Rating and 27% Crit Unbuffed. With Buffs your 1600 AP is about right, but expect the crit to be around 30% especially if a druid/pally is in the group.

22. Matticus! on January 17th, 2008 9:38 am

    Noonshade: I chose raid buffed stats because 9 times out of 10 we will be raiding with players who can buff. You may not get all of them, but at least you can get some of them. While I don’t fully expect a group to have Mark of the Wild, Blessing of Kings, Fort and all that, they should have at least a couple. By putting up unbuffed numbers, I feel that I’m robbing everyone of (semi) accurate information. I’ve only ever been in one raid where there were no buffs of any kind to hand out, and this was in Karazhan. It involved 2 Warriors, 2 Shamans, 2 Rogues, 2 Hunters, and 2 Warlocks. It was effective, but boy was it tough.

    If I were to deliver numbers unbuffed, I wouldn’t feel confident about it. Tanks MUST have this amount of HP to survive in there. You can do it in 1 of 2 ways:

    1: You can buff your health up to reach that point
    2: Not buff your health up and get a ton of good gear.

    But you must have kind of health or else you will not survive. So that’s why I wanted to say that these numbers are after full raid buffs =).

    As for how I got these numbers, most of them were from my experience. I cross referenced most of the healer stuff with my own characters, I consulted other players (Phae for Resto Druids), and checked the stats of ZA guys that I ran with and wrote them down. After that, I rounded them up or down.
    Remember that you won’t be able to kill Zul’Jin with these numbers. But you can do Bear boss and maybe Eagle boss. At least it’ll get you in there.

    Chimba: Thank you! I’ll add that later on today.

23. Noonshade on January 18th, 2008 1:07 am

    I agree that having a raid with no buffers whatsoever in there is not likely to be (as) successful and as such is suboptimal. In my guild we will always try to get as many different buffs up and running, especially in a raid like Zul’Aman where time and efficiency is of the essence.
    But sadly a mere 10 raidslots means you have to choose.

    However i think that for people to see if their gear is up to par to join and be succesful in a good ZA party seeing unbuffed numbers is more fair and useful. It is up to the raidleader to provide the buffs (or place the people in raid that can give out those buffs). A post like this could work really well as a reference for people to check out if they have managed to get what it takes to be moved out of the Kara/heroic pool into the harder stuff of ZA, because i think that it is that for sure. The unforgiving nature of the timechallenge makes it even more so.

    A list of (unbuffed) class requirements makes a nice reference for recruitment as well. If the people are geared well enough for starting in ZA (which this list is aiming to give info for i think?) they certainly will do ok in Kara, heroics, Gruul and some first steps in SSC.

    But still, nice post and it makes for good theorycrafting.

24. Beauregard on January 18th, 2008 10:36 am

    I think the post was aiming more at buffed stats to give people an idea of what the stats need to be when the mobs start beating on them. If he posted unbuffed stats, then your overall tank hp (for instance) would vary a great deal based on what set of buffs you get.

    I like the fact that he listed buffed stats, because it is easier to say “I will need X, Y, and Z buffs to get to where I need to be” instead of “I have the listed 14k hp, so I must be good to go no matter what.” A pally tank with 14k hp is probably about right, because after buffs/food/flask they should have 17k or more. But a tank with 14k who isn’t going to eat his stam food and make sure he has sufficient buffs (because it said 14k was good enough) to bring him to 17k will be really lacking.

    I know personally, I have gear swaps that can yield me about another 1k hp, as well as flasks and food, which together is almost another 1k. But if I thought 14k was enough, I wouldn’t be wasting a 30-40g (danged server inflation) flask, my buff food, and swapping gear for more hp.

    I think generally, people are pretty aware of what their buffed stats will be with whatever buff setup they have. Or maybe that’s just me, since as a tank, I am always looking what gear swaps, pots/flasks, etc I might need to change if I’m missing a buff on a run.

    It still might be useful to post some minimum unbuffed stats for people that are less than sure about what their stats will look like depending on buff set-up.

25. Blue on January 23rd, 2008 8:07 am

    Those numbers look good and are much appreciated. As for the buffed/not buffed concern - if you don’t have buffs in your group, it’s going to be rough. That just might motivate your people to bring pots/scrolls to make up for it.

    Also, speaking as a main healer Resto Shammie, 8k mana sounds very low. I’m in all kara/badge gear mainly and sitting at 12k mana buffed. Because our gear doesn’t have much in the way of spirit, it concentrates on int/stam for the base buffs (plus of course +heal/mp5). With that said, there is no reason for a shaman healer to not be able to hit at least 10k mana. This also helps make up for the regen that we lack vs. the priests/druids.

26. Rixx on January 23rd, 2008 10:55 am

    BM Hunter needs some tuning. I disagree with one post about the BM hunter, they aren’t about burst dps at all, they are all about long lasting sustained DPS if played right.

    The health and mana looks ok for sure.
    The RAP should be more like 1800-1900 buffed max for a BM hunter at that level. 2000 would be the absolute max. And for crit, they should be toting a minimal 25% buffed.

    What is listed there looks pretty spot on for a MM hunter at that point though.

27. Matticus! on January 23rd, 2008 4:51 pm

    Blue: You know I was looking at it the other day, and it still doesn’t seem right. I went into ZA with about 9000ish mana when it came out on my Resto Shaman. I might bump it up slightly.

    Rixx: I’ll keep that in mind. If I can get some more feedback from Hunters, it would be perfect. But gosh, you guys are a picky bunch =).

28. hunter on February 2nd, 2008 8:54 am

    Survival hunters Requirements are wrong, they have higher crit, but less AP

29. Aaron on February 4th, 2008 8:31 am

    Rixx is correct the BM hunter minimum AP should be 1800-1900 not 2200. 25% crit is probably a little high for a bare minimum but 20% is too low.

30. tonnka on February 6th, 2008 11:03 am

    ELemental shaman’s stats are wrong, mp5 should be completely removed, and +spell dmg should be lower, arount +650 is good, and most important, spell crits% should be at least 30% INCLUDING the 12% from talents.

31. Narn on February 6th, 2008 11:32 am

    I agree that the resto shaman mana is low.

    My shaman has these stats unbuffed and he still has two blues.

    1675 + healing
    163 mp5 (with water shield)
    8126 health
    11,213 mana

    Also what about cat druids. I didn’t see them on the dps list. I have a druid who switches to cat gear when not tanking, want to see what everyones take is on what i should be contributing in cat.

32. Narn on February 6th, 2008 11:49 am

    Also elemental shaman the dps should probably be lower. And spell crit should be a big factor. I think shamans need somewhere between 30 and 40%. I haven’t raided as elemental in a while though so that could be wrong.

33. Spiritryu on February 7th, 2008 11:14 pm

    I was wondering if there was any stats to guide a cat druid in how much stats he would need to be efficient dps in ZA. I know i currently ot in Kara and when i’m not tanking i dps in seperate gear. Just was wondering if you had anything for meh to shoot for =]. Currently for Kara i have 3k ap and 8.5k heaelth which i can’t seem to get any higher. xD

34. Matticus! on February 7th, 2008 11:46 pm

    The reason I don’t have cat druids is because I don’t have a reliable cat druid around. I’ll try to get in touch with one of our druid off tanks and see what kind of numbers he pulls when he DPS’s.

35. Ral on February 18th, 2008 12:26 am

    Nice effort.
    No offense, But you really have to do some research before writing a guide like this. I mean, come on, you don’t know the tanking mechanics, you don’t know the Hunter mechanics(yes they have their own mechanics :P) etc.. Even reading rew articles on wowwiki or official forums would give you the basic understanding of the class mechanics.
    Total avoidance should be same for both warrior and paladin tanks for avoiding crushing blows. Ant it’s 102,4% not 100%. it contains, block+dodge+parry+base miss(5%)+defense miss + 35% for paladins(holy shield) + 75%(shield block) for warriors. As a paladin my holy shield is always active while tanking. But i don’t know if warrs keep their shield block ability active all the time.
    A BM hunter and MM can’t have the same ammount of attack power with same level of gear. If a MM hunter have around 2000 AP, the BM hunter with same gear would have around 1600.
    btw why hunters should have more HP than rogues and enh.shamans?

36. Matticus! on February 18th, 2008 8:38 am

    Ral: You’re absolutely right. I don’t know the tanking mechanics in the game. I don’t know hunter mechanics in the game. Why? Because I’m a holy priest. My numbers for healers will usually be spot on as opposed to DPS numbers. I’ve done some light reading on WoWWiki. The research I’ve done consists of me talking with my guildmates and group mates. How can I trust them? Because we’ve reliably cleared Zul’Aman on several occasions. That is my research and my evidence. I put in bold right at the beginning of the article that it’s a guideline not a rule.

    The reason Hunters have more health is because I’ve had hunters complain about lack of health under my comments so I upped theirs. I’ve had little to no feedback about health from rogues and enh. shamans.

    Now, you can either take this as a grain of salt or suggest baseline improvements.

37. Squirrelz on February 19th, 2008 4:09 pm

    Hi there Matticus! I ,like several posters, would like to see something on Cat druids. My main, Squirrelz, on the muradin server is a tank/DPS. I’ve been through most of Kara with him and have gotten some nice DPS drops, but am nowhere near done with Kara drops. For reference, my stats in my DPS gear unbuffed are: 7004 HP, 2570 AP, 35.25% crit and hit capped of course. I’ve never been to ZA, but hopefully these numbers will give you something to compare with the feral druids in your guild to come up with something to post here. Thanks for this guide, I appreciate your hard work.

    -Squirrelz

38. Casius on February 21st, 2008 11:34 am

    Just one thing to add for fury warriors, they should be around:
    - 1.7-1.8k AP unbuffed
    - 10% +hit (at least)
    - 9.5k HP unbuffed
    - 30% Crit unbuffed
    Hope this helps.

    Casius

39. shirlena on February 25th, 2008 9:15 am

    been checking out the stats posted up at the top and alot of them do seem abit to high, i personally dont get half of what your saying that with those stats you should atleast get nalorakk down, most of my guild members have those stats or abit more, and we have no trouble what so ever getting to the 5th boss, i play as a mage and rogue rull kara/BOJ epics, mage pushing 905 bonus frost damage 122 mana regen, and a combat rogue with 24% crit 1948 attack power being specced mostly into things that increase my crit chance with backstab, which in total is a crit chance of 84% after gaining 60% crit chance from talents, the group make up we find that works out the best is, 2 pallies (1 prot, 1 holy), 1 priest (holy), 2 mages (frost or fire), 2 druids (resto), 1 Hunter (either spec), 1 lock (any spec) and 1 other dps depending on the boss, keep in mind ZA can be 3 healed but some fights do need 4 unless the 3 healers are very well geared

40. shirlena on February 25th, 2008 9:17 am

    and to the guy who mentioned warlocks being hit capped at 76 hit rating try 202 no matter what spec, if you want to succeed in ssc/tk you want atleast 202 for a lock and 128 for a mage depending on spec

41. shirlena on February 25th, 2008 9:38 am

    but matticus as for rogues your detail guide is almost spot on, but depending on a rogues spec does play a big roll, i’ve played all 3 specs since my rogue has been 70 and i find 15/41/5 works best as a dagger specced rogue who mainly uses backstab, subtlety rogues do bring in the extra damage from hemmorage and assassination rogues can help out with poison which can be either a dot such as deadly poison or instant poison which seem to be the only 2 poisons which work on alot of bosses, but yes general break down of stats for a rogue in kara/boj epics

    Health: 9k+ 8k minimum
    AP: 1.8k+ 1.5k minimum (also spec plays a huge roll here)
    Hit: 220(14% hit) 150 minimum
    Crit: 25% 20% minimum (also spec plays a huge roll here)

    as for a mage

    Health: 8k 7k minimum
    Mana: 10k 8.5k minimum unbuffed
    hit: 90 40 minimum
    Crit: 19% unbuffed 15% unbuffed minimum
    Mana regen: 120mp5 70mp5 minimum

    plaese keep in mind certain specs have higher crit rates and mana usage, and also along with hit 3 points into elemental precision (frost talents) is a great idea even for you fire mages as it reduces the mana cost of frost and fire spells and chance targets resists fire and frost spells by 3%

42. Lighthouse on February 27th, 2008 1:32 pm

    What stats are recommended for Druid in kitty form?

43. Jeanclaude on February 27th, 2008 8:15 pm

    Just wondering about stats i’m a BM hunter and i’m making some kara clearence planing to go ZA soon.
    ATM buffed with my group i got:
    10k+ hp
    1900AP
    30%crit
    hit rating 90
    my base dps is 385
    and my pet base dps is 250

    I saw that for hunters MM/BM the advice is 2200AP
    but it seems for me unrealistic cause BM got way more haste, i got 1.98 while a MM in my group 2.7.
    So i don’t understand if i am well enough geared for ZA.
    Thx for the help.

44. Disco Christ on February 28th, 2008 2:30 am

    Shamans that are specced enhancement are going to have (and should have) way more than 16% crit. The 27% posted earlier sounds correct, don’t forget that our crits will buff our party’s melee AP by 10% of our own. The 1200 AP cited by that person sounds too low to me, however. I haven’t brought mine into ZA but 1300 sounds a little bit closer to the mark. My shaman’s only even been to Kara resto specced (and not won any enhance loot) and he has 1274 AP.

45. Dwarfmantang - Kael'thas - Alliance - Ret Paladin on March 2nd, 2008 3:39 pm

    Ret paladins should have about an average of 1600 AP, 28% crit, and 7k mana pool UNBUFFED. The mimimum would be somewhere about 1500 AP, 26% crit, and 6k mana pool UNBUFFED, and of course, a decent amount of health. (around 8.5k or so)

46. Rivellana - Smolderthorn - Alliance on March 3rd, 2008 3:08 pm

    Wow, some of you guys are being too hard on poor Matticus here! Give the guy a break, he’s taken the time to write up this nice guide here…I think it’s great to have something like this as a guideline (it’s not a rule)! And don’t forget, you’re on a holy priest’s site, it’s not the bible of all that is WoW.

    Matticus - Great job! I play a balance druid and I pretty much agree with your numbers possibly with the exception of wanting to raise the health requirement a little (especially as a buffed requirement). Of course, this all depends on the gear and abilities of the other people in the raid as well…if the boomkin happens to ride a little too high on the threat meter and pull aggro on a mob or boss (as has happened to me many times), the high health is needed to keep that darn druid alive. Went to Kara and tanked Attumen as a boomkin once (thanks to the great heals - main heal, holy priest)!

    I also have a 64 soon-to-be-holy (24/37/0) human priest and between your blog and dwarfpriest I think I have all I’ll ever need. My thanks!

47. shirlena on March 5th, 2008 9:25 am

    for all you druids who are unsure of stats you need for ZA, please use this little website as a guide and please keep in mind look at the ssc/tk stats as ZA is basically ssc/tk equivelant

    http://druid.wikispaces.com/Minimum_Requirements?responseToken=ecfe8fa57e051adaf9d6cbc5bcee6dc7

48. Tildin on March 6th, 2008 8:40 pm

    You’re suggested stats for Rogues are ludicrously bad. First of all, you might want to point out that rogues should be combat speced (PvE Hemo has no place in 10 mans). Second of all, why the hell do you have such a low hit rating requirement? 9%? That’s below Kara level. Try this out for size:

    Rogues
    8k HP
    Attack Power 1600
    Hit rating of AT LEAST 200 (and more is better up to 363)
    Crit 25%

49. Taurack on March 11th, 2008 11:46 am

    A few suggestions if I may.

    Warrior Tanks should be ~15k armor and their Block/Parry/Dodge ~50%, miss chance included. Both should be quite easily attainable with Kara/Badge gear. Block rating is rather useless once the combined Block/Parry/Dodge hits ~28% to be uncrushable with Shield Block up which they should damn well have if even thinking about tanking ZA.

    Elemental Shaman’s live on crit, Mp5 is next to meaningless and the spell damage listed is also a little rich. That all said, they’d want to have ~25% Crit and 800 Nature/Lightning Bolt(think Totem of the Void) damage (after WoA totem, so ~700 base), which is pretty light. If you really wanted to keep Mp5 listed… 75 w/ Water Shield should be easy enough.

    Enhancement Shamans are pretty close, but I’d suggest ~1500 AP for ~23% crit. It should probably be noted that 9% Hit is obtainable simply through talents with an appropriate raiding build. More is good, but not at the expense of AP/Crit.

    Fully raid buffed these stats should be quite easily obtained if their even half-serious about raiding.

    While I do have a Resto Druid fresh into raiding, he’s just that… fresh. From what I’ve experienced and read, those stats look to be about right.

50. Matticus! on March 14th, 2008 9:28 am

    Thanks for the responses and suggestions everyone. I’ve taken most of your ideas into account and adapted them slightly with raid buffs taken under consideration.

51. Rottentomato on March 15th, 2008 8:59 pm

    Matticus…if youre the same one from wow.net…whats up brotha!!!

    as far as ZA goes for hunters, here is a realistic approach for first time entry into ZA per spec

    my raid buffed DPS is between 860-940 as a BM hunter, which is a good benchmark between just exiting kara gear/badge gear and beginning 25 man raid content, which puts you right around ZA levels.

    current raid buff will put a BM hunter at

    10.5-11k health
    6800 mana seems realistic
    hit cap
    crit 24% minimum
    1900 RAP

    this will translate into MM spec as

    10.2-10.8 k health
    7200 mana
    hit cap
    26% crit
    2300 RAP

    and a non expose weakness build MM/Surv hybrid as

    11.2k -11.8k health
    7200 mana
    hit cap
    30% crit
    2100 RAP

    the full survival build will be slightly similar with a lower crit, but not by much.

    these are set up with gear taken directly out of kara/gruul/mag/void reaver/badges

    pretty much the ideal start for going into ZA.

    for those that want to play with builds and see what kind of numbers they can get with certain gear, i would recommend using wowdigger.com as you can play with gear, gems, enchants, builds to see exactly where you stand.

    hope this helps your gear requirements for hunters, as there is so much lee way one way or another to how you can go, and certian hunters target certain stats (agi stackers, AP stackers)

    its sort of a well rounded number for everything.

52. Yane on March 20th, 2008 7:36 am

    I’ve been trying to encourage a fellow healer to follow some of the guidelines you offered here.

    He’s 1300 under your health minimum, 200 under your +healing minimum and 75 under your regen minimum.

    He’s wearing blue damage and healing items until he gets epic gear. He doesn’t have time to do regular instances because he raids on his main.

    He seems determined to get geared up in ZA (instead of Karazhan), but I’m concerned about our ability to even kill a boss if we don’t have the necessary healing covered.

    Unfortunately, our raid leader agrees with him and has said his weak stats will be balanced out by the 2 BT/Hyjal dps people we’ll be bringing along.

    We’re Team B, so it seems we’re taking the “whatever we can get” approach to ZA. But I wish we wouldn’t.

53. Pantar on March 25th, 2008 3:26 am

    Shadow Preist // Caster DPS

    this is all merely speculation from my game play experience; i have verified none of this:

    9.5k hp could only be attained by a shadow preist through pvp gear and stamina buffs (food + flasks) etc at that kara badges gruul level. also; if your shadow preist is running kara and gruul regularly; which is a big assumption; then that preist would easily have over 1k shadow damage.

    9500hp is massive for a shadow preist; kinda end game / pvp type health.

    if i am wrong please ignore this of course; just my 2 cents!!

    Shadow Priest
    Health: ~8500
    Mana: ~8500
    Spell damage: >1000

    [my char has 8k hp 8k mana and 1.2k shadow damage.]

54. warrgasn on March 26th, 2008 4:42 am

    fury warriors should have 30%-33% unbuffed in zerker stance, 40% buffed with totems and leader of the pack

55. Eric on April 1st, 2008 5:20 am

    Your warrior stats are 2k hp above sane.

56. Druidoff on April 16th, 2008 4:12 pm

    Eric: That’s a warriors raid buffed health, and that sounds right, most of the time I have done ZA both tanks (one being me) have had ~20k health. I only have Kara/Gruuls/Mag/BoJ gear, so that should be achievable.

    I would go with something around what rottentomato had for hunters

    BM (balance AP/Agil/crit)
    ~1900+ AP
    ~25%+ crit

    MM (Stack AP)
    ~2200+ AP
    ~25%+ crit

    Surv (stack Agil)
    ~2000 AP
    ~35% crit

57. Curtis on April 22nd, 2008 10:05 am

    I’m a little confused why you put all the trouble into assembling this list when you admit to not knowing a whole lot about other classes.

    This is the first list of its kind that I’ve seen post stats while raid buffed. This is a much more confusing way of doing it. Unbuffed is the preferred way of giving stats. Heck, fully buffed a tank could be 24000HP easy. That’s just not how we talk though.

    That said, I can speak on Warrior tanks:

    Survival Stats
    15000HP
    15000AC
    490 Def (or lower if replacing some def with resilience)
    40%+ avoidance

    Threat Stats

    5% hit (9% is cap for yellows or single wield so it’s great to shoot for)
    20+ expertise (I believe the “soft” cap is 27 which removes boss dodges from the table)

    Please note, the only way a Warrior is uncrushable is with 102.4% avoidance which is ridiculously stupid to stack if you’re running ZA. Other than that, we use Thuderclap and Shield Block to be uncrushable MOST of the time. Fast hitting bosses can be a problem.

58. Matticus! on April 22nd, 2008 10:38 am

    Curtis: The reason I did it is because no one else has. I have not come across such a list anywhere on the internet. I compiled the list after doing a few runs and taking notes on other classes in my raid as wel as speaking to them.

    And that’s the point. I think I’ve mentioned it earlier and I’m going to insert this in the body as well.

    In Zul’Aman, there is a certain threshold of stats you need in order to survive and be productive. If you can meet them unbuffed, then you’re fine. There’s a variety of consumables and buffs to configure your character to surpass the mark that you need. It doesn’t matter what buffs they are as long as they exceed it. But if you go in there raid buffed and you DO NOT match the stats you need, you will be ineffective.

59. Falaise on April 26th, 2008 8:35 am

    Chiming in with Pantar here, Shadow Priest numbers need to be tweaked a little. Most PvE shadow priests (unless they’re in T6 or above) will barely be pushing 9000 HP fully buffed, and probably be a decent bit lower in MP too. Spell dmg needs to be higher though, raid buffed I’d say:

    HP:8500
    MP:8000
    Spell dmg: 1100 (with flask of pure death this isn’t hard). I’d almost say 1200 with flasks+oil+food.

60. Abnormalix on April 27th, 2008 10:24 am

    Warlock req lacks hitrating. 90hitrating is a must for destruction in Kara. 202 is the hitrating cap.

    90 hit rating is good enough for ZA too. For affliction locks..hit rating is less important, but if they use shadowbolts..its still needed.

61. Abnormalix on April 28th, 2008 10:59 pm

    Affliction Warlocks:
    Health: 9000+
    Mana: 9000+
    Spell damage: 900+
    Spell Hit rating: 70+

    Spell hit, cause we dont want to see those resists.
    Spell dmg, important, but not more important then the other things(lower it from 1100 if needed).
    Mana, more firepower.
    Health, aoe dmg will hit you, and you need to be able to take the punch.

    Destruction warlocks:
    The same, only 20% crit is also needed.

62. Requisitos mínimos para Zul’Aman | Paladín on April 30th, 2008 7:42 am

    [...] Este artículo es una traducción (incompleta y con comentarios propios) de Minimum Class Stat Requirements for Zul’Aman de World of Matticus. Etiquetas: Bandas, Theorycrafting, [...]

63. Tatlok on May 2nd, 2008 6:10 am

    Just wondering about the stats required for mages. +900 dmg, hit rating capped and 30% crit sounds extremely high to me. I´m playing as a frost mage atm and dont know what its like with fire, but for me that sounds pretty much impossible.

64. Chris on May 13th, 2008 2:54 pm

    I would say that you don’t need as much mana for Ret Paladins. 5.2-6k is just fine, as you are really only going to be “capped” out once per fight.

    I would only go that low if you are willing to burn quite a few mana pots throughout ZA. If you’re on the stingy side, trade out some of that Warrior gear for Ret Pally specific gear that has some INT on it.

65. annerajb on May 14th, 2008 6:42 am

    you are wrong in one thing the having blue quality items. scryer bloodgem is blue and it have the same stats that the icon of the silver crescent irc so instead of looking at the colors of their items go read their stats and see if they meet them i have 969 spelldamage on my warlock with 3 blues. and only 2 badges item so really you should reconsider the blue quality thing. as most people read this go make a ZA pug and they dont want people like me with blues because blues< purple(when is not true)

66. Capincrunch - Eitrigg on May 15th, 2008 11:15 am

    As a resto druid, 140 mp5 seems too low, my druid with just kara gear on has about 250-300 mana regen depedning on class makeup. And Prot pallys don’t need quite as much health as warriors, because they take 30% reduced damage while under 30%. I would also suggest having atleast 2-3 CC, i always bring in atleast 1 shadow priest, 1 mage, and usualy another one of either class.

67. Anonymous on May 17th, 2008 12:12 am

    I think the statistics for mages sounds reasonable.
    I have everything except the crit%.
    30% sounds quite hard to attain.
    My spell damage is at +1035 but my crit is only at 23%. I heard that +damage/+haste was more important and was wondering if that makes up for some loss in +crit.

68. Tatlok on May 22nd, 2008 9:21 am

    That´s what i was talking about. Getting two of the stats is no biggie, but getting all three above min req seems more or less impossible if counting only t4 and equivalent gear.

69. levenstier on June 3rd, 2008 2:14 am

    Hey just my 2 cents, ima resto druid.In my experience resto druids usally have less +heals then ne other class.I am full epic with ZA,gruuls,kara and some badge,i still only have +1950heals.Where as a priest/pally can get 2100-2200 with relative ease.But cleary my gear is better(statwise)just with less heals

70. Tainted on June 3rd, 2008 10:17 am

    My Paladin is on an active ZA team and I beleive your stats are really low. This is what I run with.

    10,000 Health
    13,000 Mana
    2200 +Healing
    25% Crit
    205 Mana/5

    Even on the bear boss I will burn 2-3 mana pots and still end up drained by the end of the fight. Yet when I go to Hex Lord I cannot even begin to start healing that. But than again it could just be the other two healers that I have coming with me and not myself. But I believe that your stats for a Holy Pally are a bit low.

71. rapi on June 3rd, 2008 12:21 pm

    So many classes seem to recommand an instane amount compared to others here.

    a bm hunter for once with 2200ap, well thats pretty damn high.
    while a warlock can get 900 spell dmg in t4 (tho t4 is probobly enough)

    40% crit fury warr ?
    people in bt have abit over 30%crit
    only way u can get 40 is with axe specc or alot of crit gems in good gear.

    hope the protadins block/parry/dodge combined is with their block ability up

    then healers with 1600+healing, puts them in a somewhat lower gear requirement then the hunter/warr. sure things are diffrent but, a paladin in 1600heal isnt much, tho i know i handled za on a 1650heal druid, tho mana as druid rarely matters cause they are usualy high regen

72. Blackcat on June 4th, 2008 4:42 am

    Your tankadin stats are a little off, I think. Any self respecting tanking paladin will have more than 200 spelldamage for *Karazhan*. I hit ~250 unbuffed, and I still have the Continuum Blade (haven’t actually been to ZA, though my guild does do it). With the Arena/H-MgT mace and wizard oil/food/buffs, you should be ~400 unbuffed. Your health value seems about right though.

    Also, in terms of avoidance, you want to be counting in terms of pure avoidance, i.e. parry/dodge/miss. I would imagine this value to be ~50%. Including block is pointless, as tankadins must have 102.4% block/dodge/parry/miss with Holy Shield up to be uncrushable anyway (or 72.4% without it up) and extra block rating falls off the attack table.

73. Grin on June 6th, 2008 1:43 am

    Hit cap for fury warriors is 9%. 40% crit is too high for unbuffed. If a warrior is buffed sitting at 1800ap, they won’t hit 40% crit buffed. And it all depends on the buffs as well. I sit around 1880ap and 28 crit unbuffed. Fully buffed, i’ll hit around 3000ap and 37% crit easily. But yeah, if you’re basing these stats off of buffed ppl, then lower that crit chance to about the 35% area.

74. Timmeh on June 6th, 2008 5:52 am

    A warrior should have at least 35% combined parry and dodge. Shield block value and rating are less important (as long as it’s high enough to keep your shield slam damage (thus threat) reasonable, shield block will do the rest to make you as uncrushable as you need to be).

75. Darkshadoww on June 6th, 2008 12:52 pm

    Just wanted to say like a couple above, u need to change the stats for a rogue up there cause i have been every spec and like they said a sub rogue can hit that high of attackpower easy but only pop out like half as much as a combat rogue in a dungeon, probably need to put up like 1450 atp req for combate rogue and yea like 1800-2000 for a sub rogue becuase just for going sub u get 30% more atp along with all the other stuff but a combat rogue can hit 2 people at once and have unlimited engergy.

76. Darkshadoww on June 6th, 2008 12:57 pm

    O and to add to that does it really matter how much stamina a rogue has? i only have 8500 but i have 39% doge rating without my trinket or evasion (and when i use evasion i have 105% doge rating for 20sec and a 1.5min cooldown)to go along with the parry and cloak of shadows that makes u resist 90% of fire ice and any kind of spell damage for 10sec and a small cooldown on that.so does it really matter how much health rogues have since they probably wont get an agro anyways if they know how to use faint ?

77. Muron on June 13th, 2008 10:50 am

    Spirit Bolts deal 450 shadow damage to nearby enemies every 0.5 sec for 10 seconds. It increases in damage with each Soul Drain.

    You almost always get some partial resists so at the start everyone in the raid take about 8K damage. Spirit bolts are cast every 30s so you can’t always cloak of shadows through them. Making sure that you give time to healers to get you up is vital, that’s why you need 8500 health minimum.

78. Kiwibird on June 17th, 2008 9:36 am

    Shadow Priests need to be hit capped too.

79. Kiwibird on June 17th, 2008 9:40 am

    Sorry, just saw the line about caster DPS. Got confused because Shadow Priests are way at the bottom

80. Rick on June 19th, 2008 2:06 am

    Would just add:
    All casters should be getting close to the hitcap..
    I play a boomkin with +1191 and +120 hit (boomkins cap at 150), and until I recently swapped gems for hit, you really feel the difference in DPS due to resists.
    Nothing like making the ‘locks sweat on the tables.

81. Ben on June 20th, 2008 8:25 pm

    Wow, i saw maybe 2 postings for lock, anyways, the 8500 mana is way to low, i run around 9500 unbuffed with over 11k buffed, yea we have lifetap but why stress the healers, my suggestions are 11k hp, 10.2 without imp, 10-11k mana, +1000 shadow dmg, and definatly over 150 hit, just my 2 cents on the matter

    the stats i raid with-unbuffed
    0/40/21
    10.5k health with imp out
    9800 mana
    +1312 shadow damage
    176 hit
    26% crit
    52 haste

    all on kara/gruul’s/badges gear

    and while i love a boomkin in the raid, lol at making a lock sweat

82. Ven on June 26th, 2008 3:01 pm

    Hey, I’ve been playing a warlock forever and I thought I should lend a hand.

    For an affliction warlock, your mana pool requirements are a bit high, and your health requirements are slightly high.

    I’m currently running (unbuffed) with around 7500 mana, and 8000 health. This is with full kara/badge epics. My SD is around 960 unbuffed, and my spell hit is 200ish (varies with gear sets).

    Now, it’s easy enough to swap out a few pieces of raiding gear for PvP gear, which is a massive boon to health and mana, but then my spell hit and damage are lowered. People tend to over exaggerate the amount of health warlocks can have. A lot of raiding gear just simply does not have enough +sta and +int to meet these standards.

    Lets look at some decent raiding epics for locks.

    Weapon: S2 staff or S2 staff + S4 OH: Lots of sta, int, SD, and spell hit. No problems here.

    Head: PvP headgear just doesn’t have the spell hit that other pieces do, but has 3 gem slots, including 1 meta, and has a MASSIVE amount of sta for the level of gear. Take a look at the spellstrike hood. Great SD, good crit (still good for affliction, but better for destro), great hit, and a wonderful 3 gem slots. The downside is that the sta and int is lacking. I would still choose the Spellstrike hood over the PvP headgear because of the large amount of dps increase, even at the cost of survivability.

    I’m out of time, so I will discuss other gear choices later, but I will end with a quick discussion on destro.

    Destro min stats are very harsh… and I’m talking just to spec destro. Most people will not be able to by the time they reach ZA. It is most accepted that a destro lock should have these stats (not including sta and int):

    ~1000 spell damage
    hit capped (much more important for destro then for affliction)
    AT LEAST 20% spell crit after talents (25% recommended)

    By the time this is obtainable, the sta and int requirements you have stated will be much easier to reach.

    And I just wanted to say thanks for the effort you put into making this guide.

83. fufey on June 27th, 2008 6:00 am

    i do believe that for a mage that 30% crit rating is completely absurd for ZA. I run SSC and TK with 1050 spell frost dmg and 110 hit rating with 3 points in elemental precision. My crit rating is only 19% unbuffed and 23% buffed and that seems to do me fine. What needs to be made more of a priority is spell hit rating which has a dramatic effect on overall dps and mana economy.

84. Ven on June 27th, 2008 4:03 pm

    Edit to my last post:

    Weapon: S2 staff or S2 *DAGGER* + S4 OH: Lots of sta, int, SD, and spell hit. No problems here.

85. barman on June 28th, 2008 12:31 pm

    30% is only for fire mages probably. frost mages need about 7-10% less then that (cause of some frost talent)

    Prot paladins dont need as much health as a prot warrior. They got a talent ardent defender where damage taken is reduced by 30% if health is lower then 35% max. health. So I guess about 1k or even up to 10% less health then a prot warrior would be ok.

86. Silvaris on June 30th, 2008 1:29 am

    What is the +hit needed for a shadowpriest?

87. Silvaris on June 30th, 2008 5:01 am

    With/without Shadow Focus if anyone knows..

88. Dratoid on June 30th, 2008 2:08 pm

    Surv hunter 2,2k AP? Ahahahahahahahahahahahah

    Sry, but noway in kara gear. My surv hunter got 6k mana, 39% crit, and 1750 AP, and he got hit rating capped + 989 unbuffed agi. rly, 2,2k AP is bit high, since u will be only taking agi pots and stuff( and BoK, instead of BoM if u got one pally, or at all). I’d say 1,9-2k would be more like it.

89. Ven on July 1st, 2008 1:22 am

    Now that I really think about it, I was forgetting some buffs in my health calculations. With commanding sout, fort, and blood pact, a lock should be pushed well beyond your health minimum. Mana reqs aren’t bad IF you actually have someone that can buff your intellect. Really though, affliction locks dont need a large mana pool.

90. Tankette on July 2nd, 2008 10:35 am

    Ah, I’ve been looking for this! Excellent, once again Matt. Now I know what I am shooting for on my holy priest.

    Our first ZA group that I tank for only runs with 2 healers. I think their bonus heals are well over 2000 though.

    Tankettes last blog post..SSC, 3 Boss Night

91. Matt on July 3rd, 2008 9:21 am

    I’m a warlock that tops dps in a group that gets the bear mount regularly.

    You DON’T need 3 healers.

    We do it with 2 all the time (all 6 bosses) and we beat the 4th timer by about 5 minutes.

    This is what i recommend for the group:

    2 Tanks:
    *Feral Druid (so he can change gear for dps on every boss other than halazzi and nalorakk, and act as a 7th dps.
    *Prot Pally (SUPER important since jan’a'lai can be killed much faster when you can clear an entire side of eggs at a time, plus aoe is huge in the gauntlet to akilzon and for speed runs)

    6 DPS:
    1 Spriest (put it in the dps caster group for a 4 timer run to avoid having downtime)
    1 Ele Shaman (put in dps caster group for spell dmg totems and heroism; interrupts on hexlord)
    1 Destro Warlock (AoE #1)
    2 Fire Mages (AoE #2 and 3, spell steals buffs off flame casters and hexlord)
    1 Hunter (phase 3 zul’jin dps, misdirect, totem killer)

    2 L33t Healers: (T6 healers in our group)
    1 Resto Shaman: (Heroism for tank group/hunter, chain heals for hexlord)
    1 Resto Druid: In tank group/hunter group heals.

    Group heals are huge here, the shaman should be casting chain healz off of the mt.

    Good luck guys!

92. Tankette on July 3rd, 2008 10:08 am

    Drool. I want that bear mount. Badly.

    Tankettes last blog post..Gius goes to Kara

93. Matticus on July 3rd, 2008 11:11 am

    People don’t seem to understand what the word minimum means.

    Matticuss last blog post..Dear Matt, What Should I Look for in Joining a Guild?

94. Xelestial on July 3rd, 2008 10:27 pm

    There was one comment that caught my eye.

    Id also be impressed if a duel wielding enhancement shaman could get hit capped on badges and kara gear alone. Same with rogues. Do you know how much they need to be hit capped? Its something like 29% i believe, maybe 25%”

    Very untrue. My husband is a Rogue and we have only been to Kara, he only has two badge items and his hit is nearly capped at 297. If you are a Rogue curious about how he did it, his name is Flare on Echo Isles.

    The problem is many people don’t even bother with hit. They want their other stats instead. If you are missing most of the time, all those nice stats mean nothing.

    Also, if these is raid buffed, I think you should have put it in the top of the post (unless you did and I’m just missing it) Also, these seem more like recommended-ish than minimum, then again, I’m thinking the beginning of ZA than a full clear. Still a decent list.

95. Ho Ho on July 7th, 2008 1:02 am

    Shadowpriest stats are kind of off I’d say. As others said the listed HP requirement is pretty high. Sure, having lots of it helps but it is really hard to get considering that Kara geared SP has five really low stamina pieces if it wants to be any good (SS + FSW set), six when he does belt of blasting too that has zero stamina. Only when I started getting a few pieces from ZA I could get anywhere near 9k raid-buffed.

96. SenorBongo on July 7th, 2008 6:15 pm

    Great guide. But I too think taht 17k may be a bit high for paladin tanks. In my experiance, since tankadins are the only class that has to consiously worry about uncrushable, stacking stam is less and less of an option.

    Even 15.5-16k Hp would be more reasonable. IMO

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About Matticus

I'm Matticus and I play a Dwarf Priest. My home is in Carnage, a raiding Guild. Every week, I log 11 hours raiding on Ner'Zuhl.

My time in World of Warcraft started in the summer of 2005 when most of my friends started to play it. I decided to give it a try and I've been hooked since. The main classes I play are healers. I have a Priest, a Shaman, a Paladin, and a Druid. With the exception of the druid, all of them are level 70.

Wynthea is the Troll Priest with the best Mohawk on Nazjatar. Currently, I raid 5 nights a week, and PvP occasionally. I started working toward end-game in May 2007, and my guild is currently working through Sunwell. I've tried playing other classes, but Priests are my passion; I've found our racial spells an endless source of fun and frustration. I am extremely fond of Dwarves.... especially with Ketchup.

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