A dear friend asked me for some help a few days ago. She wanted to know what the minimum requirements are for new players looking to enter Karazhan. I’m not looking for numbers that will take down Prince on the first try. What I want are respectable numbers that players of any class can shoot for. I’m looking for ABSOLUTE MINIMUMS HERE. These are the kinds of numbers that will down Attumen after one try, Moroes after three, Maiden after two, and Curator after fifteen because they don’t have the gear for it.
These are the numbers that she has so far. Any recommendations or adjustments? I’ve modified the numbers for opinions on Holy Priests and Shamans. When I get a chance, I’m going to begin perusing the blogs of my other colleagues to see if they have any information that I can add to this list. Even a simple confirmation of numbers would be nice to see, so don’t be shy! (Note: Don’t mind the colors. I copied it directly off a forum)
SUGGESTED MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS TO START KARAZHAN
Warrior
Tank(MT):
12000 Armor, 12000 hp, 490 def., 15-30% Dodge/Parry
DPS:
1700 ap, 70 hit, 33% crit
Druid
Tank:
415 def with 3/3 Survival of the fittest, 12000 hp, 30% Dodge, 20k armor
(As suggested by Karthis)
DPS:
600 dmg, 15% crit (caster form), 75 mp/5, 75 hit
Heal:
+1000 heals, 100 mp/5
Rogue
1300 – 1400 ap, 90 hit, 20% crit
As suggested by mesczante
Priest
Heal:
6000+ health, 7500 mana, +1000 healing, 100 mp5
DPS:
6000 mana, +650 dmg, + 3-5% hit
(As suggested by MK)
Hunter
BM:
8000 hp, 6000 mana, 1450 ap, 17.5% crit, 75 hit
MM:
8000 hp, 6000 mana, 1750 ap, 17.5% crit 75 hit
Shammy
Resto:
950 – 1000 heals, 110 mp/5, 10% crit
Elemental:
+500 dmg, 20% crit
Enhancement:
1000 – 1200 ap, 20% crit, 8% hit
Mage
+600 dmg, 90 hit, 25% crit, 6000 hp and 7000 mana
(As suggested by Calandris)
Pally
Tank:
102.5% Total avoidance (dodge/parry/block)
490 def, 10500 hp, +100-150 dmg
Heal:
1000-1200 heals, 80-100 mp/5, 8000-9000 mana, 15-20% holy crit
Warlock
Affliction: 7000 hp, 6000 mana, +600 dmg, 90 hit
Destro/Demon: 7000 hp, 6000 mana, +600 dmg, 90 hit, 20% crit
Again, your comments and opinions will be greatly appreciated.
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97 Comments
This should be my most updated armory… give this a look and let me know if you have any suggestions.
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shattered+Hand&n=Shinguard
I will say that I have yet to enchant most of my items. I plan on mixing the remaining enchants with the glyphs plus stam/agi/AP enchants and upgrading my gems using a few blues that need to get cut.
When all is done it looks like my AP may be on the lower side, but my hit and crit will be pretty solid. Is that a good balance?
id say hit for mages is a lil high i have 35 spell hit and i am about top 3 dmg done total, and usually top 1 or 2 for DPS
Rogue
1300 – 1400 ap, 90 hit, 20% crit
As suggested by mesczante
what frikkin specc is that??
Updated my list too, and kept the credit to your orginal post. I think I was a bit easy on the pally off-tanks and forgot the warrior off-tanks.
Mages dont need spell hit for something as easy sauce as kara =X
… a paladin who knows how to play retribution, does well damage. im a retribution specced paladin, and im always high up on the damage meter, still if there is someone other at my gear lvl in the group
I didn’t see anything for Retribution spec Paladins. While I know that they’re not in demand (or even liked), I still like using one.
Since they play more or less like a combat speced rogue I assume the stats are roughly the same. On difference is that Ret Palys only need ~100 hit to max out our accuracy with a 2-hand weapon.
continuing on the ret pally discussion, i’ve run one for quite a long time, and they contribute alot to raids, especially if u spec improved judgement of the crusader, everyone attacking the enemy the judgement’s on gets a crit buff. Most of their judgements contribute much to the raid, such as healing on each hit, or mana on each hit. plus in kara, they rule at dps cause most everything in kara is either undead or demon, which we specialize in killing. the only reason i respeced to prot is because people wouldn’t stop saying that we’re worthless to raids and only good for pvp >=(
Great resource…I’m going to start vetting partymates against this page, for sure.
How come no recommendation for feral druid dps? I’ll float 2,300 AP, 28% crit and +70 hit as the price of admission. There’s a comment above recommending 20% crit, that’s way too low.
Feral druid tanking stats are fine for offtanking which is all you’d be doing upon entry anyway. Might be hard to hit 30% dodge, but it’s a good goal. 28% at least.
right now, my hp is around 10.5k unbuffed, block+parry+dodge+holy shield is around 70-85%, and armor around 11.8k…i know i can’t tank all of kara’s bosses right now, but how far can i get through the bosses until it becomes a problem?
Hunter AP is kinda high only rly need 1350 AP for BM and 1550 for MM ( unbuffed obviously). And u dont need that much health u should not b getting hit i started kara with 7k health and its never been a problem
Those healing only apply IF there are three healers! Many groups attempt Karazhan with 2 healers (or maybe 2 and some offhealer) depending on the healer deficits on the server or on that day. If there are 2, a minimum of 1400+healing would be a requirement.
As for confirming how successful these stats would be… well I was never irresponsible enough to attempt Kz without vastly better stats than these
I know for a fact you’ll get people looking at these numbers, being 10-20% below on each stat and thinking they just about meet the requirements for jumping into Kara. I think you need more bold caps underlined text stating that those people will let the group down! With these stats they should be doing more 5-mans (not even heroic worthy!!) and gearing up that way. It’s completely possible to gear up to a ZA level without setting foot in Karazhan, and people must take responsibility for gearing themselves rather than waiting for a raid group to do it for them.
for destro lock u need 202 hit not 90
For Enhancement Shamans:
Enh. Shamans do not need quite as high of AP as other mele classes will to succeed in adequately DPSing Karazhan. Because of our Wind Fury (which is MUCH better than the WF totem we give to potential group members), we can throw up huge numbers with much lower AP. WF instantly hits two additional times with bonus 475AP on each hit. For this reason, I would suggest Enh. Shamans to work towards 900-950 AP for a starting point, which would put your WF AP around 1400 when it procs for you (WF has a 3 second cooldown and cannot proc again until the CD has expired). Stats are important, but stats will only compliment your skill and ability as a player. The know-how is the key to an enh. shaman.
What is much more beneficial to understanding how to properly DPS as an Enh. Shaman is using suitable weapons and the correct spec. First is the spec. Enh Shamans DO NOT need any +Hit rating. If you spec correctly, you can reach the cap of 9% (142 hit rating) without any additional hit rating gear. This is achieved at 6% from the enh tree and 3% from the resto tree. This is a MUST have. Additional +hit is not a bad thing and will bring up your overall DPS largely, but the base amount can EASILY be reached through proplerly specing. As the gear comes, you will get more +hit which is a very good thing to have, but NEVER NEVER socket for +hit as a shaman. Put all your sockets into +Str and +Crit as these stats will soar you up to the top of the charts in no time flat.
Secondly, obtain and use proper weapons. Enh Shamans that are not using two slow, hard-hitting weapons are going to screw themselves in a very major way, and you’ll never keep up with other mele classes. A fast off hand has a VERY high chance of procing your WF and putting you into WF cooldown for the next 3 seconds. WF’s from off hands that are fast barely do any damage at all and will gimp you from the opportunity of maximizing your beautiful WF’s by having them hit with the main hand weapon instead. Also, two fast weapons will not proc more WF’s… they go on a 3 sec CD and CANNOT proc more than that, period. On top of that, fast weapons don’t hit hard and won’t do much damage by comparison. Get the slowest and hardest hitting weapons as you possibly can in BOTH hands and let your flurry speed up your attacks. WF is your ticket into raids and high damage. Don’t gimp it, but rather, maximize at all costs. Having trouble getting weapons that meet this criteria? Season 2 weapons are FAR better than anything you will get from Kara and/or Heroics and easy to to get your paws on.
For the Crit, 20% isn’t bad for a starting point. I’d suggest working toward something more along the lines of 22% if you can. Please remember, ALL of your bonuses will come from a mele crit (Unleashed rage, Flurry, Shamanistic Focus). Crit is abesolutely crutial to contribute to the mele group (you BELONG in the mele group due to these things and your totems), and will also really make your WF’s shine. Because of the two extra and instant attacks we get from WF, we Enh. Shamans really have a high number of hits and really need them to crit as often as possible. Crit will help you stay in the flurry and U.R. range and this will boost your DPS greatly.
I have an enh. shaman named Striffe on Cho’gall – Horde. He’s at 1276AP, 26% crit and 100+hit on top of my 9% spec. I’m working towards gettin my expertise capped so mobs and bosses can’t parry or dodge my attacks as often. I have never been beaten in over all Damage in Kara except by very geared Locks that rape Illhoof. We roll with two rouges too whom I regurlarly beat by 2% damage and both are well over Hit Cap and have 2K AP. If you have questions, make a toon on my server and ask away. I’m glad to help where and when I can.
One Love
~Striffe
I hope Enh Shamans find good use from my post just above, however I have a question of my own:
I don’t see much information about hit rating for tanks. My pal is a Druid tank and would like to get into kara. I think he’s very ready to do it in all aspects, but he’s not too confident about his +hit. Anyone able to shed a little light on how much +hit a feral tank would need to successfully hold aggro? He’ll likely start out as our off-tank.
Thanks ahead of time.
~Striffe
“Destro/Demon: 7000 hp, 6000 mana, +600 dmg, 90 hit, 20% crit” That crit chance.. is that with or without devastation added?
Svog:
As stated above, these are the bare minimums for Kara. It’s really just a guide or list of the base stats to be minimally effective in Kara. However you reach these stats – if it comes from your spec or from raid buffs/flasks/potions – isn’t of any consequence. Reach the numbers however you need to, honestly.
What is the best mage spec for Karazhan, and what is a good set up for a good starting Kara group to it least get up to Maiden.
I think those fury warrior stats are a bit high. From personal xp. and from what i’ve read a fury warrior who wants to go to kara and not be dead weight for guildies tp drag around should aim for something like this:
Attack Power: 1450+
Hit rating: 90+ = never miss with yellow damage
Crit %: 25% out of Zerker Stance
I think those are easier to aquire but still efficient to raid Kara. Good site, alliance FTW!! lol
You forgot Survival Hunter Reqs,
For survival id say 1250 ap, 20-25% crit, 7k hp, 5.5k mana, and 60 hit
Warlocks:
I would lower the affliction hit to 76 (that is where the affliction spell cap is with suppression). And raise the Spell Dmg. To 700. Also, this needs to can be shadow dmg, as immolate will only lower your dps/mana pool.
As far as destruction goes, I would again push for 650-700 damage and lower the crit to 18%. This number should be before your hidden/talented 5% buff.
I can comfortably raid T6 content 21/40 with something like 18.25% Crit. Not at the top of the dps but usually top 5. Although, I do have like 1079 dmg in raid gear so that might make a difference. I wouldn’t recommend that build for Locks until they have solid T5 stats. You will do more damage as affliction or deep destro.
And thanks for the info, I am trying to gear some other toons for kara, and this list really helped me!
The one about a MT as warrior seems abit low on hp and dodge/parry, when i first entered kara (very undergeared for it) i had about those numbers, before i could MT i was up at around 14k hp, 30+ dodge/parry so i would suggest a raise on that (oh and for prince fight, if you have less then 16k hp and or less then 20% dodge don’t go over 17% in parry becuse of hes riposte)
I’m surprised by your BM hunter requirements. 1450 AP? We had Prince on farm by the time my Hunter (as BM) had that much AP, and I was topping the DPS charts at somewhere around 800-1200 (including pet damage)… The HP and MP seem right on track, but a BM hunter that is using cooldowns and trinkets should be able to more than pull his own weight EASILY with 1450 AP. That is, if you’re getting 1450 AP without Aspect of the Eagle on.
The reason my DPS was topping the charts with only 1450 AP is because I popped all my trinkets and Bestial Wrath whenever they were up on a pull where the duration of the fight would be greater than the skill’s duration (we did some pretty big trash pulls).
But the MOST important element to Hunter DPS is Shot rotation. If you don’t have a good shot rotation, your DPS will suck. If you have a good Shot rotation, you can out DPS people in purples when you’re just in blues. I remember going into Heroics with nothing but blues on and hitting the 800-900 mark and either tying or beating out people in full Heroic epics.
Also, as a note, I ran Kara with blues intentionally even though I had several purples as replacements that had dropped in Kara just to stack more +hit. I had higher DPS than Mages, Warlocks, and Rogues fully decked out in T4 running around with at least 5 blues. The Blues definitely didn’t work for ZA, though, as I needed a lot more stam, int, and MP5 to maintain DPS, particularly because our Ret Paladin respecced to Prot for tanking and so we no longer had a mana battery via Judgement of Wisdom.
wtf 1700 ap fury warr never hell no ffs
1500. u cant get so much ap from doing hc dungeons. ffs got full pvp gear brutal vindicators and 2 veng 3 gladiators and i have 1567 and 2 kara epics. never 1700 34 c
Anna Moreno:
You were asking what a good raid set up would be for a starting group going into Kara. I’ve noticed that no one takes the time to answer questions, but rather they prefer to talk about their characters that nobody cares to hear about. For that reason, I’ve decided to take the time to answer your question:
Good set up looks like this-
-2 Tanks. Pref different class (ie War & Pal)
-2 Healers 1700+heals (or total of +3500 healing)
-1 Mage (fire suits the roll better for raiding)
-1 Warlock
-3 Melee (good enh shaman is a must for this grp)
-1 of anything. Likely another healer for pug grp
This gives you the ten maximum ppl you can bring to Kara. For the one random spot, you’ll be better off getting another healer if you’re pugging Kara for the first time. If you can pick up two solid healers, you will be better off with an extra DPS instead of another healer for the random spot. Many of the bosses in Kara have a rage timer and will go into berserk thus resulting in an unavoidable raid wipe.
In Short:
you must have 2 tanks, at least 2 healers (about 3500 total +heals) and you have to have a Warlock if you want to take out Illhoof – he’s an easy boss if you have a lock in the raid and pretty much impossible without one. You can fill in the rest as you please. Melee DPS is important, so don’t forget to bring them along as they make Shade of Aran a much easier fight.
As for the preferred mage spec… can’t help ya, pal. Hope the rest was helpful.
Y no stats for survival hunters? very disconcerning.
Fury Warrior:
1500 AP (Always gem for strength!, Hybrids are possible if needed, but never gem for hit.)
95 Hit <- Bare minimum if you’re lazy, but aim for 120+ you will enjoy the dps boost.(Yellow Attacks do not miss at 95.)
31% Crit <- Fully raid buffed, zerk stance, etc. I think 26% is the marker unbuffed, add in kings and GoW, elixir of the mongoose is also a possibility.(This is needed to keep rampage up.)
Spec 17/44/0.
Also, do yourself a favor and build up a decent OT set, doesn’t have to be perfect, but somewhere along the lines of 10.5k+ hp(buffed of course) and 490 def. rating. Chances are you might do a lil’ Moroes mob or two. Won’t be that bad. ;D
i heard that some people prefer a hunter to hit every time with a bit less AP than someone with good AP and misses loads. so crit maybe higher and AP a bit lower
*edit to earlier post. 31% crit chance, buffed, is needed to keep rampage >and< flurry up.
ok, since the stats arent up yet, i might as well list the stats for ret pallies that i see and heard from my friends as the pure minimum requirements
1500 ap
5k mana
25%critical hit rate
I dont exactly remember wat the hit rate needed is, so any1 who knows, plz tell me.
forgot to say that all those stats are unbuffed, so no saying i hav 1520 ap with BoM, cause that doesnt count
lol 8% sham hit rating comes from Spec so shammys need Little or NO hit rating to cap for any instance. When LK comes out Natures Guidance is going so they will need some hit rating to cap.
This list of numbers is what my guildies have been asking for.
I have copied the list and numbers into a stickied forum post on my own site, ordered it a little, and put this site up as linkage.
Also, i wrote that i have the numbers off this blog.
Extremely helpfull list for people wanting to gear-up for kara, but have no clue on what to do. Thanks
Sastiquanto, Guild Master in Shades Of Hell – Twisting Nether – EU
DPS WARRIOR
1400 AP, 24% crit (29% crit with axe spec’), 70-120 Hit rating
these stats seem acceptable on my server.
Pittens (70)
DPS WARRIOR
Nagrand
Is this where we sign up for the Kara?
I’m in ATHF…….
I’m BM with just over 1K attack power, 99 hit rating, and 21 crit…
I just wanted to say if you need a DPS I can go…but not if I don’t get my BG bow before…Hopefully I will..cya tonight.
That’s all nice that you listed the minimum requirements but if you add all those people up with those shitty stats they will never down anything inside of Kara I don’t care how good you are period.